I am outraged by that bone-petite. Which bone is petite? Why does their bacon have bones?!
Bone apple tea
🦴 🍎 🦷
🦴🍎🍵❓
I wouldn’t assume someone who writes bone petite would know that the second “t” is near-silent, so I went with the phonetic emoji alphabet version. 😅
frenchy here : the second “t” isn’t silent at all, you’re confusing it with “petit”, the masculine version, where the second “t” is indeed silent.
I think they were saying the second “t” in appétit is silent (which it is), not the one in petite.
I understand; I said “near-silent” because I don’t know of a better way to describe it (diminished? unemphisised? 🤷🏻♂️)
Mind you, my experience with French is mostly limited to Duolingo and Google Translate - and could very well be wrong.
So bone apple tooth? Sounds completely off.
I was aiming for teeth, so that’s on me for only including one! 😅
lol I see, bone apple teeth I guess
🦴🦧🍵
🦴🍎 ☕️
🥚🌽
That sounds more like bon appétit than bone-petite
Ummm… Well… Yes…
r/boneappletea has been a thing for almost two decades at this point, and that subreddit was dedicated to people misspelling words and phrases with spellings that indicated that the person had only heard, but never seen the word.
average fopah
I always thought that’s like a joke, now i saw so many americans say bon apple tea that i’m so sure anymore.
“Bone apple tea” is often used as a meme to reference malapropisms like this, so that’s probably how you’ve seen it used… However, it originates from someone actually making that mistake and someone making a subreddit about it.
Bone-petite is as much French as a neo-Nazi will ever master. This guy is probably considered sophisticated in MAGA circles.
Considering who wrote it, it should read “boner petite”
He’s just letting him know his penis is small
boneappletea
Very skinny (ribs and hipbone very visible) and small breasted woman.
The stapes/stirrup bone is pretty petite.
not my stank bone for sure.
Also, on top of being raging racists,isn’t this kinda … Pedo? … Bone … Petite … I mean, really …
Hmmmmmm curious as to why this was your first thought…
Right? I’m into petite women because I’m 6’4 and the best sex I’ve ever had was when I was 19yo banging a 5’2" 34yo fit mom. Petite does not equal young.
If you speak french that does sound like pedo shit…
I find direct offensive bigots really interesting, they clearly have problems in their life, and their response to these problems is to create MORE problems.
I have enough problems in my life to try and actively stir up more of them.
Whenever I encounter a problem in my life, I toss a molotov cocktail. That immediately turns into a different problem.
This is the mathematician’s approach. When faced with a novel problem seek to reduce it to a known problem, and solve that. This assumes you know how to solve the problem of everything being on fire.
i live in california that’s a known problem
See, it can’t be that big of a problem when it’s ashes right?
I may not no how to solve it, but at least I understand it.
BORTLES!!!
JORTLES!!!
Jason was a simple man - https://youtu.be/EKWW6oFQDZY
That immediately turns into the same problem.
As long as you can deal with arson, you’re golden.
Bröthër
That little asshole in school who miraculously made it through every year, despite being a bully and dumb as shit?
Turns out they don’t despawn after school. They keep going in life and turn up in places like that.
“hey man fuck you”
Hey
I just can’t comprehend being that hate filled. Like to have all that hate living rent free is just weird to me.
Now I’m not a happy man at the best of times and struggle with the desire to continue living but I’m still not a hateful little prick and I’m just trying to live my own life let alone try to tell anyone else how to live theirs.
Interesting perspective. I see your point, but have you thought about the fact that minorities exist? Surely they can’t be expected to ignore that!
Is is racist when Muslim is not a race?
I thought we covered this after 9/11.
It is racist because the vast majority of Muslims are South Asian and Middle Eastern.
The first hate murder commited in NYC was against a Sikh man because to these folk brown = Muslim.
Most of these people think Muslim is a race of people with more melanin than them.
I, for one, wish I had more melanin.
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Fine. “Bigoted.”
he didn’t say racist.
The title of the post did
you didn’t reply to the post , you replied to a comment
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Human races don’t exist and are a concept made up by racists to justify their discrimination.
I fucking hate this “x is not a race” argument so much for that reason. Nothing is a race.
Yes, I get your point, I meant that dividing by culture/religion is the same as dividing by random stuff like skin color, so the first is as shitty as the second
Ask a racist to tell you what a Muslim looks like. If they describe a person they’ve attached it to race. If they answer that it is a religion and not a race congrats you found the world’s smartest racist
If they know that it’s a religion and not a race, how are they “racist”? They are a bigot, sure, but not racist anymore…
Well I did instruct to ask a racist specifically
Touche
Fair, I have updated my comment to change racist to bigot
… No. It means they made a terminology error.
bone-petite is so cringe it caused me physical pain
I do think their bone is quite petite
I think it’s actually intentional because a thing asshats are trying is to make fun of how he isn’t muscular.
… because you know… Lifting weights has so much to do with being Mayor…
deadlifts 350
becomes mayor of a mid sized city
deadlifts 400
becomes mayor of a larger city
This is how it works right?
Only in sidescrolling beat em up video games, I think.
The weirdest thing about this is given his build he could still be much more physically fit than 2/3 of his detractors. Natural muscle is not as prominent as modern media has made it out to appear and to be as crazy built as some folks look you simply have to use extra supplements and push your body far further than is actually necessary for any kind of day to day life. You can be skinny and still perfectly strong and healthy
I bike about 100 miles a week, and every bike ride I stop at the outdoor fitness area for some water and do a few pullups to even put my build a little. I’m skinny and lanky as fuck and honestly built pretty similar to him
I’m a short “small” guy and I can’t tell you how many times I hear “wow you’re way stronger than you look.” It’s pretty frustrating lol
I suspect many people can’t even get to what the media says is “physically fit” without completely giving up any life or doing roids…
Movies and TV have in recent decades really leaned heavily into a level of muscle that isn’t possible for the average person to attain without performance enhancements. This combined with gymfluencers who take performance enhancers and people who’s hobby is lifting so they spend many hours a week at the gym plus average people not having the time or money for the gym makes a perfect storm of most people not knowing what a healthy amount of muscle or a healthy build looks like
Oh and expectations have always been for women to be overly thin so far too many women are led to feel that their healthy weight isn’t skinny enough
Right. Of course they are.
It’s projection about the poster’s uh …inadequacies
Speaking like a normal person and not a salesman is probably helping him quite a lot.
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Except everyone finds shit offensive, and I don’t think Muslims care about Christians eating pork. Pigs are not sacred to Muslims, it’s actually the opposite.
It would be very different if they were sending pictures of steak to Hindus, for example.
I literally believe an innocent, defenseless, sentient creature was systematicallty and needlessly tortured and murdered to make this and that my tax dollars paid to subsidize it. If this isn’t triggering to me, I can’t even imagine how fucking stupid this looks to Muslims who think God forbids it. Like should someone fire back a video of themselves disregarding the Sabbath and expect Christians to care?
And isn’t pork haram predominantly because it was considered by people like Muhammad to be impure? So this sounds more like someone sending them a video of scraping gum off the underside of a desk and chewing it. You sure owned them.
It was probably considered impure because pigs have a big parasite issue before industrialization and improper cooking often led to people getting sick or dying.
A lot of religious “rules” can typically be boiled down to trying to keep people alive by making sure they avoid potential dangerous things, increasing their hygiene, or just making life easier and reducing hardships.
It’s almost like people in charge realized that it would be easier to get people to do things if it meant going to heaven and avoiding hell instead of jail or something.
My favorite example of this is the protocols for finding mold in your house.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+14%3A33-53&version=NIV
Sure in isolation it’s an odd thing for God to care about, but without a doubt it saved countless lives
Super interesting!
He shall kill one of the birds over fresh water in a clay pot. Then he is to take the cedar wood, the hyssop, the scarlet yarn and the live bird, dip them into the blood of the dead bird and the fresh water, and sprinkle the house seven times. He shall purify the house with the bird’s blood, the fresh water, the live bird, the cedar wood, the hyssop and the scarlet yarn. Then he is to release the live bird in the open fields outside the town. In this way he will make atonement for the house, and it will be clean.”
Being a priest must have been a very different job back in the day.
What kind of mould was this, I wonder? It sounds gross, and if such efforts went into eradication it must have been super toxic.
That and drawing a division between the in-group (who must follow the laws, but are protected) and the out-groups (who are filthy barbarians whom one does not fraternise with)
The Quran does not specify the reason for the prohibition and this is the common theory. Other theories i have heard, but not from scholars, revolve around pigs being particularly social and empathetic animals. Although the same can be said for grazing animals and many hunted animals that are considered halal.
I went to school with a muslim and that was the first time i heard that they don’t eat pork. When i asked why, he said because they lived on the bottom of the ark and ate the shit of other animals. I love pigs and don’t care why people don’t eat them, i’m just happy they don’t
See also Leviticus… lots of food safety prohibitions there.
Or it’s like evolution. There were a lot of arbitrary rules and the ones which actually made people survive thus survived as well.
The stated reason is because pigs are considered unclean because they’ll live in conditions we consider dirty, and will eat things we consider unclean.
It can be very tempting to look at ways that modern beliefs and practices overlap with historical ones and find ways that make them “make sense” from a modern perspective. This can make it harder to understand what people actually believed, or see the framework they were using, pushing the “oddness” somewhere else, like a bubble under a piece of plastic.
For parasites, we think of pork as carriers of parasites in the modern world because our supply chain has eliminated them from other commonly eaten meats.
This lines up with 2/3 of abrahamic religions having a prohibition against pork: they must have gotten the right answer for the wrong reason.
Except in the times those religions were developed pigs weren’t greater vectors than other animals.
There were also other contemporaneous cultures that didn’t have that prohibition despite very similar circumstances. If it were a food safety issue we would expect to see other cultures have the same prohibition. Similar problems have similar solutions after all.https://archaeology.org/issues/march-april-2025/letters-from/on-the-origin-of-the-pork-taboo/
we think of pork as carriers of parasites in the modern world because our supply chain has eliminated them from other commonly eaten meats
Our supply chain has also eliminated them from pork at this point. As far as I know, most trichinosis in the US, at least, is wild game (bear and boar) and home-reared hogs not subject to the controls on commercial hogs.
Also, I liked that article. It seems like the long story short is that the proto-jews and proto-muslims were pastoralists who wouldn’t have raised pigs themselves, and when they butted into neighboring peoples who did raise pigs, that difference became a cultural identifier, and its importance was magnified to the point of becoming an actual prohibition.
Yup. And bobcat, of all things. Last I checked that was the last US confirmed case. (It makes sense since bobcat obviously can get trichinosis, but eating bobcat seems like such an unlikely thing to do)
I didn’t get persnickety on the details there because common understanding hasn’t caught up with the reality of the food safety situation. It’ll take a while before people really accept that you can cook pork medium rare and be just fine, and longer still for tastes to adapt, since the guidelines only officially changed in 2011 and medium rare pork still feels underdone to a lot of people.
I can’t even imagine how fucking stupid this looks to Muslims who think God forbids
Truthfully it probably doesn’t matter to them that much. They are told not to eat pork because it is unclean. Why care if someone else does it? It’s not like it’s a sacred animal they were commanded not to eat. I think that’s a big difference
I actively disliked bacon looong before going vegan. It smells bad and the amount of fat that renders out when you cook it is just plain uncanny. Why is it never a high-quality french Jambon or Prosciutto with those people?
They can’t spell those words, for starters.
Why is it never a high-quality french Jambon or Prosciutto with those people?
Because along with hating minorities, foreigners, and the LGBTQ community, there are few people American nationalists hate more than The French.
You shouldn’t render out all the fat of your bacon. Keep it in there!
Also fuck Off with reduced fat anything. If you give me fat less bacon the cooking will not work unless I put some other fat in.
I will get the fat into my system no matter what. If i don’t sweat on the toilet, what’s the point of being alive.
??? You don’t sweat on the toilet from eating a well cooked meal.
You are what you eat.
I’m delicious! (Fat IS flavour right?)
So they’re calling themselves pigs?! Doesn’t really seem like the own they believe it is.
Always been
They think it works that way because that’s the way it works for them.
Show them a picture of Mecca and they freak right the fuck out.
meanwhile they cry a tantrum when Starbucks uses red cups.
they are the most fragile people on the planet
The War on Christmas is absolutely real and it is the height of ignorance to pretend otherwise. To be crystal clear Christmas is the 12 day season between 12/25 and 1/6. Anyone complaining about people not saying “Merry Christmas” outside of 12/25-1/6 is talking about the wrong season.
Advent starts with the first of four Sundays before Christmas day. This is typically after American thanksgiving has taken place and is the actual season that is going on when people complain about “The War on Christmas”. The proper greeting for this season will refer to Advent and not Christmas because 12/1-12/23 is not Christmas.
To sum up there is a War on Christmas and the aggressors are the ones bitching about people not saying Merry Christmas during Advent.
sometimes I see Christmas decorations in November!!!
i saw stores putting a Christmas section, then taking it down for Halloween, then putting the Christmas section back.
Christmas must respect the Halloween borders!
Halloween? When I was a kid it started after Thanksgiving! We wore onions on our belts which was the style at the time…
Although I didn’t wear the onion belt I did read the documentary on Onion John?
I was there when the attack began on Thanksgiving!
I’m so grateful that we don’t celebrate Halloween or Thanksgiving here, because that means that stores actually start selling Christmas cookies in September. I was finally able to refill my strategic Spekulatius reserve this week.
i get the hate for American Halloween spreading around the world.
i lived in Scotland for a while and that was a common sentiment, except from actually Scottish people because most Halloween traditions are Scottish, and now they get the English trying to stop them.
that’s a traditional Scottish jack-o’-lantern
I have no hate for Halloween. We have a similar tradition here in northern Germany called Rummelpott (rumble pot): At new years eve, the kids dress up, go from house to house making noise with their rumbling pot and singing a song asking for treats.
That custom does slowly fall out of fashion and gets replaced by Halloween, but I think the decline of Rummelpott started before and independently of the rise of Halloween, so no reason for hate.
The only thing I really dislike is the aggressiveness of Trick-or-treat. With Rummelpott it was great if you got a chocolate, but if someone couldn’t give or didn’t want to, it was fine as well. But on Halloween you’re kind of extorted to give something. Some older kids have even committed malicious property damage with their “trick” part in the past, but I feel like that’s gotten slightly better since the news started reporting the criminal charges some of these teens were facing.
I’m Scotland, my neighbour accidentally created our own tradition.
practically all the street goes together on a single group, adults and children alike, was so much fun. we never arranged it so, but we ended up doing that one day then it kept on growing.
I pulled into a Dollar General store yesterday (September 2nd) and they had a bin of Christmas wrapping paper for sale on the sidewalk in front of the store.
It looked faded (like it was leftover in a warehouse from last year), and I think it was with the discounted summer close out stuff, but still.
There is a difference on how the holiday season go based on religion, but also based on country. Like f.e. in The Netherlands the gifts are more traditionally exchanged on the 5th of December because we have Sinterklaas then, which is basically based on the same Saint Nicholas.
Or talk about how you’re eating less meat/became vegan and they’ll act like you’re demanding them to become vegan too.
I once told someone I enjoy eating meat. Later they caught me eating tofu, because I enjoy eating that too. It was fun watching them implode!
Their minds explode the moment they visit Japan, one of the least vegan friendly countries and simultaneously one of the most tofu loving ones
People clutching their ears and writhing in pain the moment they find out you’re trying to cut back on eating meat is always such a bizarre response.
Imagine doing this to anyone going on a diet. Screaming and thrashing and trying to shield yourself with a fist full of candy bars the moment you hear “I’m cutting sweets out until I lose 10 lbs”
Sorry i don’t eat meat.
I NEED MY PROTEIN, I’M ALLERGIC TO VEGETEBLES, I GET ALLY MEAT FROM A GUY WHO TREATS HIS ANIMALS VERY WELL AND THEY LOVE BEING EATEN.
Okay.
It’s projection. If you showed them a rainbow or a Day of the Dead decoration, they’d get super offended and bent out of shape. And because that’s how they react to things they don’t like, they assume that’s how everyone else reacts, too.
The best part of living in an area with a lot of Muslims is all the halal burger places that use beef bacon.
Dude, I fucking love halal food. It’s so goddamn good.
Usually getting gyros, gyro platters, falafel, etc., but I recently tried a halal burger place and it was the best cheeseburger I’ve ever had at a restaurant. No bacon on it though, I don’t think.
Ok, now I’m on a mission to try this. I don’t know how I’ve never heard of this before. I live in a large city and I often eat at places that are halal but I don’t think I’ve ever seen it.
It’s absolutely delicious. One of the halal places near me has it and it’s so good on a burger with sauteed mushrooms and cheddar.
Basturma (Middle Eastern pastrami) is also a wonderful thing. The intensity of flavor is incredible.
And if those Muslims are Syrian, their whole cuisine is incredible. Even the Lebanese, who claim to have invented everything and to be the best at everything, will admit that the food in Aleppo is (probably was, after all the destruction) better than in Lebanon.
oh man is that how the local halal gyro place gets so good
I wish I did. We have a mosque, but only a few dozen seem to go, and I’ve only found a few halal restaurants, and they’re all Pakistani or Indian. The closest thing we had was am Israeli restaurant that went under after a year or two.
Next time we travel, I’m definitely looking for this.
I’m remembering a paragraph of one of the Witcher books where a vampire is at a fancy ball at a royal court and while eating a garlic soup with his silver spoon he was explaining in great detail to a patron seated near him that vampires are deathly afraid of silver and the slightest touch of silver will immediately kill them
Ah yes, Christian Nationalist attacks on other Abrahamic religions. How’s that poly blend mask fitting these days?
Do these people who claim to be Christian even know their beloved book? It doesn’t seem so, at least they don’t act like it.
Too many nots, I’m tangled.
I admit, King Jameses language is somewhat outdated. You can select another version of the bible in the drop-down at the top.
Do these people who claim to be Christian even know their beloved book?
Very, very few. It’s really frustrating when talking to them because of their ignorance of their own operations manual. As an agnostic, I’m embarrassed for them. I took the time to read it many many many times along with the Mormon text, Hindu religions, Janeism, Buddhism, etc and about 3 years ago I finally finished the English translation of the Quran. They can’t seem to handle one book.
And I do not say these things from any moral high ground or superiority. However, if you come to my door and tell me I’m going to eternal damnation because I do not believe in the same way they do, their book, and their god, then they better bring their A game.
America was founded by people fleeing religious persecution from the government installed in their homeland, official Church. They left us two principals to live by. Freedom of religion…that’s them, and most importantly, freedom from religion, that’s me.IMHO we can all coexist given 3 criteria are strictly met:
- Lawful: that’s obvious
- Peaceful: Another obvious
- Stays out of my politics: One not so very obvious to a lot of people. That is by design. When ever you have a religiously dominated government, it always, always, always turns out bad.
Give a man someone to hate and he’s bend over and spread his cheeks for your amusement. (Paraphrased LBJ)
Bacon is to Muslims as Broccoli is to a White Nationalist.
I travel around my (deep purple) state with a satchel of various brassicas. Going out of the house in this area without a curated collection of cruciferous comestibles would be like going into a hot war without merely a sidearm.
- Everyone knows that any green thing can ward off the common MAGA chud, but many are unaware that so-called “enlightened” centrists are actually attracted to broccoli. Don’t be fooled. For them, you must brandish brussels sprouts - preferably still attached to a long stalk. Then, launch into a cooking lesson, but do NOT DETACH OR BOIL THE SPROUTS. You will have your quarry at the first hint of Maillard’s reaction, and they will either join your cause or become total hermits.
- Liberals will claim to favor kale, but I’ve had success presenting them with multiple diverse varietials while explaining that “Lacinato” and “Dinosaur” are both equally accurate and acceptable terms when used to refer to the bumpy, dark green kind. Your utter indifference to - and rejection of - their “correct” preference will eventually send them into a blind, self-destructive rage - if you’re patient and hold the line. Just be sure to stand outside their blast radius when they finally go.
- You must be creative and self-assured when it comes to libertarians, but try showing off a fresh romanesco cauliflower while delivering a long-winded (but efficient) diatribe in which you logically interweave fractals, calculus, coastlines, cacti, psychedelics and concepts of cognitive sovereignty. Once they sense that you have more than a surface-level understanding of these topics, and genuinely care about how they each relate to objective, consensus reality, they pathetically slink away like old goats, having fired not a single round of reloaded ammunition out of their bespoke 3d-printed handgun.
Good luck out there!
10/10. Would read again.
You clearly have a libertarian in the family, perfect description.
Critical vegan-halal solidarity against cringe meatposturing.
Meat eater here, I also don’t like these cringey meat lovers. Worst are the carnivore diet evangelists, they’ll call you vegan if you eat any plant based food.
Ugh, I hate the carnivore diet folks because I have a really good friend that did it and actually lost a bunch of weight and got back to being much more healthy and spry. How do you gently bring up the long term crap that it can do without sounding like an ass as your friend gets happier and happier? Luckily he reintroduced vegetables at two months in, but I know of some idiots who don’t.
So many of these diets boil down to cutting calories by cutting high calorie foods like carbs (especially sugars) and fats.
Calorie counting is the only tool needed to lose weight.
I’ve been skinny, muscular, and chubby all on a typical diet and again on a vegan diet.
Calorie counting is the only tool needed to lose weight.
That’s just wrong. Ask an NFL football player, pro soccer or pro whatever if they count calories and lose weight anyway.
Nah, they’re correct. Calories are the determining factor for controlling weight. But intake aren’t the only numbers on a calorie balance sheet, workouts go on there too as subtractions. If you want to lose weight you make sure that your daily total leaves you at a deficit (Negative number). Athletes are usually already at their target weight and so they just make sure their daily numbers work out to somewhere around zero total.
I would feel negligent if I didn’t also mention to other readers: This is just for weight. If you want to be healthy, it’s important to also get proper vitamin, mineral, and protein intake daily regardless of caloric in/out.
My beef with this mindset is that it makes people too focused on counting calories. Psychologically, it’s really bad for you. There are many elements to that.
Plus, If some dude is on the couch 99% of non-working time, them walking or whatever, will make them lose weight almost instantly. Even just going for a daily walk as long as they can, being kind of they don’t go that far that day, but picking up the next day, will improve their mindset.
If you just look at the biology, it will fuck with the psychology of losing weight, which is probably why they’re overweight in the first place.
Yeah I do agree with this concern. That’s why I added the addendum at the bottom of my comment, though I might have been adding it at the same time you were typing your reply.
Just starving yourself is not a good strategy for health or weight loss. You won’t maintain a starvation diet forever and when you stop you’ll go right back to your old habits and weight. A caloric weight loss plan should absolutely assume that workouts will be the primary driver of the calorie deficit (And it’s actually not hard, even for someone of weak will like me, to do that: One workout = One free meal!). That’s why the tool I linked needs to know your workout routine. In fact if I would change anything with that tool I would add the option to replace the workouts drop-down with a custom workout deficit amount because “1-3 workouts / week” is too vague, everyone’s workouts are different.
I both agree and disagree here.
Losing weight has little to do with activity and more to do with discipline. If you take a fatty and get them to exercise, they’ll probably replace those calories with an after-workout snack, they’ll just be a little healthier given the exercise.
To me, the most effective way to lose weight is to change your relationship with food. Food shouldn’t be something you reach for when you’re stressed or bored, it’s there to provide nutrients. Instead of counting calories, I recommend categorizing calories, meaning figure out how many carbs, protein, and fat you need (see dietition or nutritionist, or guess with articles online), what types of fats and carbs you need, and construct a meal plan that fits. You’ll need a certain amount of non-calorie nutrients as well (e.g. dietary fiber, cholesterol, sodium, etc). If you can figure out what ideal looks like, you can approximate it with foods you enjoy, adding stuff you like less that rounds it out.
If you can’t build the discipline, any weight you lose will be temporary.
I had a problem where I needed to “gain” weight because I had started some intense exercise (bike to work) and didn’t increase how much I hate enough. So I did this exercise and adjusted my diet accordingly without adding a bunch of trash, and my weight returned to normal. I stopped tracking once I got a feel for the right quantities.
Be intentional about what you eat and you can reach your goals.
There’s a lot more that goes into a healthy diet and lifestyle but for weight management this is the only factor.
Worst are the carnivore diet evangelists
That “Liver King” dude had a psychotic break recently and got arrested for threatening Joe Rogan, and his family’s, lives.
In America eating meat is seen as masculine and the women there actually have offspring with men that see the world this way. Some even see it this way themselves. Cringe-nation.
Between this, random circumcision and guns having more rights than children…
Bone apple tea
same fuckers that loose their shit when I tell them I prefer dog bacon but I’m also kinda sick of it because I just got back from visiting family in china and my family doesn’t cook much of the more well known dishes. we just eat wild/kennel dog and wild salad.
then I ask them why they let heir government officials shoot dogs for misbehaving when they haven’t even been trained
