Kids these days don’t know the horrors of wrangling IDE ribbon cables and fiddling with jumpers.
MASTER SLAVE AUTO (auto never works)
But yeah fuck flat IDE cables. I don’t miss old computers a single bit
MASTER SLAVE AUTO! MASTER SLAVE AUTO!
curls into fetal position and moansWhy? It was easy, one master and one slave per cable. You set it once. What’s the problem?
Its a problem if you don’t know to do it because the it is not intuitive if you aren’t familiar with hardware jumpers as a concept since this was one of the last holdovers from that era and befouled many a hobbyist. You build it and it “just doesn’t work” and “learn that jumpers are a thing” is pretty far down the list of things that most people troubleshoot when their new build won’t post.
Except those hard drives that had a picture of the jumper positions on the sticker, and it’s not clear which end is pin 1, so you have to play around with it until it works.
Is it not working cause the jumper is in the right spot? Is the drive bad? Is a BIOS setting not right? Is that kink in the cable a problem?
Never had those problems myself, I found the instructions pretty clear. It was labeled near the pins so hard to miss.
Back in þe day, þere wasn’t much of an online to learn about jumper settings. I built a couple of PCs entirely by trial and error. I just remember back in 1990 it being a pretty horrible experience.
It was in the manual of any motherboard of the time… I built a lot of PCs before I even had internet, you just needed to rtfm.
Manuals? We don’t need no stinking manuals!
But, honestly, þere was so much going on when I was assembling þat þing, and I had no patience. And it’s not þe first drive - it was mostly an issue when I was adding additional peripheral drives, like Orb or internal Zip drives, or second HDs.
Yeah you had to have a special cable or something for Auto to work.
The 80 wire one, with the blue connector inserted in your motherboard/controller card/whatever. I never had a build where the longer end of the cable fit good in that setup, so jumpered Master/Slave it was.
Me wondering for 4 hours why Windows 98 isn’t booting.
Yeah I’m stupid.
You just awakened a buried trauma in my mind
Autoexec.bat, config.sys
HIMEM.sys
And if you tried to run more than one HDD and got those jumpers wrong, it would let the magic smoke out of one of your drives.
I don’t remember it being that bad. I remember the system just wouldn’t detect the drive.
Yeah, that never happened. Smoke coming out of the drive would require a short, or power where power isn’t supposed to go.
Yeah, I dunno what to say besides that it happened to me twice. Probably close to 25 years ago while upgrading my 12GB HDD to a 80GB Seagate Barracuda, I decided to try running both drives together for a whopping 92GB of storage. Whatever jumper combination I tried first ended up with one of the drives not being recognized, so I tried another combination, either both master or both slave, and the control board on the 12GB drive let out the smoke and that drive was never able to be recognized again. I don’t remember exactly what happened the second time, but I know it happened twice because I felt really stupid about not learning my lesson from the first time. Not saying there couldn’t have been something else going on, but they had keyed IDE headers that couldn’t have been reversed and no other issues until I tried the incompatible jumper combination.
My guess is that you didn’t put on the jumper properly and accidentally shorted them out. I know I shorted out things back in those days by putting jumpers on wrong. But who knows, you might be right. It was so long ago and the effects of getting a setting wrong were often so much more serious back then.
I still have some flat IDE cables in my collection of cables. Just in case…
Right next to my ps/2 keyboard and mouse with serial adapter cause you never know.
I carried around a floppy drive (like through moves, not day to day) for a long time after I last used it but eventually realized tech has gotten to the point where I’ll probably never use one again.
But I did get an external bluray drive instead of throwing away all those discs I burned back in the day. Even though, in the process of checking them for data loss and ripping to move them to m-discs, I realized I didn’t really care if any had lost data (though none have so far).
I still have my “portable” mp3 player from 2000… It was a kit, you supply hard drive, 72-pin simm, and power supply.
I never used CS (Cable Select) after accidentally nuking a drive because I had two of the exact same model and it flipped the order on reboot… couldn’t figure out why it didn’t boot and then noticed I cloned the blank drive to the good drive…
Right, it was cable select… Yeah SATA was a blessing. IDE / PATA really sucked
That kind of shit is why I recheck things about five times before running such operations.
So you missed out on needing a manual and adjusting 20 dip switches to make your build work.
I had one of these used (think the board had 5 dip switches) but never really used it, am under 40
I’m a bit over 40 but got to have some older computers at a young age. One of my boards had like 20 dip switches on it. I overclocked that shit to… 33Mhz.
Was “auto” also known as “cable select”? Because if so, I’m guessing it worked fine with the right cable…
It was cable select, my bad but I’m leaving it as is
I don’t remember it ever working reliable, regardless of cable
Jumpers, IRQ conflicts, out of memory for your drivers and program at the same time. Still hella fun. The front panel used to be an unlabeled, unstandardized mess.
SET Blaster=A220 I7 D1 H5 P330 T6
Remember having stacks of boot floppies for each game so you could optimize memory allocation depending on the need?
This game requires EMS memory to be allocated, and this other game requires XMS memory to be allocated! Hold on, gotta edit my AUTOEXEC.BAT.
Some of us automated that shit.
There were times when writing batch files was more fun than playing some of the shitty games I had back then.
Ah yes because some things needed eXtended memory and some needed exPanded memory, and some things didn’t like drivers being loaded into high memory and some things didn’t like other things to be on certain ports or interrupts haha.
Still suffix my paradox games’ run commands in steam
Lolol stacks of boot floppies, what a casual. I had custom config.sys and autoexec.bat with a boot menu for various configurations.
Used to?
Ahaha good point it’s making a comeback!
Hon, i remember the days when we had to manually set the cylinder and head count in the BIOS
I had almost forgotten the horror that was chs<->lba translation…
Manually settin’ them IRQ’s
The first time I installed an nvme… Like a 14th century peasant standing in front of the Vegas smiley face.
Same. I was like “this cannot possible be a hard drive and it cannot possible get plugged into that thing, that’s where the wifi card goes on a laptop.”
24 pin ATX cables for the mainboard are still a pain tho. Also plugging in RAM sticks is still dangerous as fuck if you arent careful.
The good news is, as far as components go, RAM is fairly cheap… Oh no…
I was so traumatized by jumpers… when I built my first machine a few years ago, after over 20 years since the last time I looked inside one, I had to do one tiny minor thing with a jumper. I legit panicked and felt like I was about to permanently lose my brand new mobo. For absolutely no reason other than jumper involved. I don’t even recall bricking anything, maybe just my dad scaring the life out of me about it in the 80s.
And even configuring master and slave as well as irq and dma manually was never really an issue if you knew what you were doing. (except edge cases)
But every million different clone manufacturer had their own jumper settings.
You needed to have the manual for everything, because you couldn’t look it up online.
That’s what I would call edge case, I stuck to reliable ones.
But fair point and possibly the availability was different everywhere too. Also, the older stuff was the worse it was. It got better over time with prints on boards and such.
But were you around for dip switches?
Wrangling IDE cables with awkward angles so you couldn’t both see and touch the space at the same time. And the case edges were made of knives. And then, yeah, it wouldn’t boot and you’d have to figure out that your master/slave jumpers were incorrect as others have stated and have to remove, tweak and replace the drives.
Good times.
Or the old power supply cables to the motherboard … black wires always to the center
Back when usb was first appearing on boards, some cases had their usb port cables broken out into individual pins that you needed to place in the correct order.
I remember my first build with SATA and being really confused when I couldn’t find the jumpers.
RAM goes into debt hole
USB cables fit into Ethernet ports. They will also go into HDMI ports if you force them. Source: Family
Yes. I used to work in support… I have seen things you people wouldn’t believe.
I’ve seen computers on fire due to dust buildup. I’ve seen usb cables glitter in the darkness, stuck inside Ethernetports.
All these moments will be lost in time, like a ticket in the support system.
I worked in automotive electronics. Our cables use asymmetrical trapezoid connectors made from heavy duty plastic with metal reinforcement. There are mechanical hinges to put things in place and lock them only if everything is aligned.
We still had to do electrical tests against wrong connections because apparently people somehow still force them wrong way around.
I work in automotive R&D, it happens here as well.
I used to repair air traffic control radios and other equipment, everything from glide-slopes and runway lights to the air traffic control console itself.
I’m going to stop right there.
Whenever mankind manages to make something idiot proof, mother nature builds a better idiot.
I worked in automotive electronics
But did you work with AUTOSAR?
I resigned about when we started the switch to AUTOSAR. I’m happily in medical tech now.
Nicely dodged a major bullet, apparently.
Bravo! Beautiful!
I have a universal hole that fits all of those.
So does my ex
We know
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USB-C cable also fits into USB-A port. Don’t do it, your pc will shut down. Source: me, trying to blindly plug in the cable, twice.
In the 90’s: “Sorry you set the CPU voltage jumpers wrong and you’ve fried it. No refunds.”
I’m in this comment and I hate it.
In the early 90s, Linux actually let you set hsync on your monitors, not just vsync. With a CRT you could literally fry it with an invalid number. Generally I wasn’t as cautious because I knew I could never really brick a computer, except for that setting.
It warned you about that, but I don’t think actually frying a monitor was common. I was cautious, but I still made mistakes and gave it values that my monitor couldn’t handle, but the worst that happened was a dangerous sound coming out of the monitor and no useful picture on the screen. I immediately shut off my monitor when that happened, but it didn’t do any permanent damage.
Probably a cheaply made monitor might have issues, but well built monitors had hardware protection against invalid settings.
Many of the older monitors could let the smoke out if you gave it the wrong horizontal frequency. The better made monitors would limit the horizontal frequency to a safe value and just not sync if the video signal was outside that range. The later monitors were smart enough to not even try to display and invalid signal and may even show an error message on screen.
Uhm… Won’t
sudo rm -rf /*also brick your modern PC, as it also deletes UEFI variables that are always mounted rw for technical reasons?Generally no. Most of those variables are mounted RO now. Additionally you can factory reset the board and recover. There were some systems a while ago when UEFI first came out that didn’t correctly manage that, but that hasn’t been a problem for years now.
I once somehow managed to plug in a molex upside down and got to watch the magic smoke escape from a 2GB Bigfoot drive. Sad day.
The physical act of assembling the computer isn’t the hard part. Picking out components that will work well together is the tough part.
“The good CPUs were very expensive so I just bought two cheap ones, that should be ok right?”
Y’know, I know this is a joke, but back when I did contract work, I legit had a client do this. They bought two i3-2100s because 3+3 equals 6 and that’s more than a single i5.
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So, you joke about that, but there was a time when that was absolutely the strategy. Right around the Pentium 3 era, there was an enthusiast motherboard that came out with two sockets, and the hot advice was to get that motherboard and a pair of Celerons rather than a Pentium 3.
AMD’s first multicore CPUs were pretty much two single-core ones taped together. AMD didn’t bother designing the CPU such that it shared anything between the cores.
PCPartPicker / Logical Increments / PC building forums: hold your own beer, we’ve got this for you
Physically assembling a full RBG machine is a nightmare. My current machine was a Meshify C fully rainbow’d out because I wanted to. Each fan goes from one wire to many wire, there’s an RGB controller they all have to go to that just stuck onto the back of the motherboard that also connects to a fan speed controller back there that leads to a port on the mobo, the radiator has to mount and those fans have many wire too cuz they’re RGB and wiring is a nightmare mess. Then one fan’s RGB started going crazy and just flashing randomly so I had to the that off in the extra software tab has to run at startup, then a radiator fan started spinning weird so I had to RMA the whole AIO and while I got a new one, it’s still in box.
I now have five silent black 120mm fans and a black Noctua d15. RGB RAM (identical pieces that never had their rainbow color sync up) have been replaced with black RAM. Never again.
The opposite of this is also hard.
I want a pc in a black case and I DONT WANT ANY GOOFY FUCKING LIGHTS. Everything comes with lights. The keyboard, the mouse, the fans, hell I bet some RAM has lighted coolers now.
It is not easy to choose stuff and not accidentally pay extra for a piece or two that lights up like bozo the clown’s asshole. It is a minefield.
It was significantly cheaper for me to get ram with lights than without. Same manufacturer and everything.
Oh very true. I love some blinky lights as long as I can set them to ALWAYS BE OFF when I want.
I was able to find some lovely replacement parts for all my RGB stuff though. I could have gone with a much cheaper CPU cooler, but I just loved how giant and chonky the d15 is. You can get black fans everywhere, I think I got some Corsair silent fans to replace all my RGB fans. RAM was easy to find RGB-free.
My mobo still has RGB but that was mega easy to disable forever. PSU is a KW black.
So how I have a beautiful silent blacked-out machine, and a drawer with a great working PSU, 32GB RAM, three RGB 120mm fans, and a 280mm RGB AIO just chillin there. Maybe I’ll make another machine with them sometime.
Quick edit: I DO want my keyboard and mouse to have lights on them. I live and work in a very low-light house because I’m a gremlin, and having dim lights and shine-through keycaps allows me to find keys I don’t hit as often when I need to, or find my mouse on my desk when it runs away.
I undermount my PC on the far back corner of my desk, the lights just don’t do me any good.
That’s fair haha. Mine now lives face-to-face with my partner’s identical (but newer and more powerful) machine behind their big screen next to my desk, so lights wouldn’t do anything for me if I had them anymore.
hell I bet some RAM has lighted coolers now
Every single RAM manufacturer has an RGB variant, it’s been pretty common for like a decade now. You can even get dummy sticks that just have the lights.
Fortunately, going dark isn’t too difficult. Non-RGB fans are easy to come by and usually a bit cheaper. You can also just not connect them to the RGB headers. RAM is also cheaper in non-RGB variants. The only issues might be motherboard and GPU, though there’s a bunch of GPUs with no lighting at all and are also cheaper (ASUS Prime 9070xt has no lights), and most BIOSes have an option to turn it all off.
Even harder to find all that in 1995 beige. :(
I haven’t gone maximum rainbow vomit, but mine is a Fractal Pop Mini Air with RGB case fans, and yeah there were a few more little wires to run. The case actually has a built-in RGB controller, and I used that for awhile, but I got kinda curious and started playing with the onboard RGB, and I’ve got an aurora effect I like through OpenRGB. I think it’s doing that by Linux sending the motherboard’s RGB controller data constantly over I2C so it’s tying up some of my system RAM but fuck it it’s fun.
Physically assembling it is still fairly difficult. There’s the physical effort of wrangling a heavy heatsink or a huge graphics card into place while being gentle so you don’t bend or break any of the connectors. There’s plugging in all the cables in a tight space where you can’t always clearly see. There’s knowing which cable goes where when the labeling is small and all the cables look basically the same. There’s the challenge of knowing when a cable or a card is properly seated, knowing how much you can push to get something locked into place, without pushing too much and breaking it.
It’s harder than lego, but it’s not rocket surgery.
The hard part is if something doesn’t work. For whatever reason. Putting things together is easy, if it all works, nice, done. That’s how all my builds went, so I don’t actually know shit about troubleshooting. My friend build his first pc and nothing worked. I checked if it’s all plugged in, nothing. He changed all the parts and at the end he had two faulty ram.
I have yet to build a computer that didn’t POST on first boot, with one minor exception: My cousin’s Ryzen 5600 machine. I built that in a Fractal Meshify 2 Mini, which has a front IO reset button, and I wired the Reset and the Power buttons backwards. I pushed the power button, nothing. I pushed the Reset button, it booted to the BIOS setup.
I THOUGHT I had a problem with my uncle’s computer; but no, the monitor I was testing with chose to die during first POST. That monitor is behind three different trees now.
Green cable also goes in the squary hole
The other day I saw a video which referenced and explained this meme. They mentioned it was 5 years old. My hair turned white on the spot.
I’m actually surprised it’s only 5 years old, I would have guessed 10.
That is a very mean and hurtful thing for that video to say!
Damn, it’s actually not even five years old. I could’ve sworn it was about 10 years old.
The original TikTok video was posted by @brock1137 on December 30th, 2020. In the video, Brock places toy blocks into the shape sorter toy but only uses the square hole instead of other shapes as all pieces fit into it. On January 1st, 2021, TikToker @tired_actor posted a duet video in which she gets increasingly frustrated and distressed as all the pieces get placed into the square hole.
I love this video so much. I know her reaction is an acting exercise but it’s still so funny.
There was a glorious time in the 90s when PC building had enough stuff going on and not yet enough safeguards that I could actually put things in wrong and start a small fire.
Those were exciting days. And sometimes expensive.
Magic smooooke
Those are the gases that made the computer engine run. You let them out and the engine dies.
One time it worked to quickly turn off and pull out the smoking chip (cpu cache extender) flip it 180 degrees and try again. No apparent permanent damage.
Any machine can be a smoke machine if you use it wrong enough.
wait, have they finally fixed the “i can plug in my psu wrong” problem? the stress of that at my job was bad enough i don’t want to do it on my home computers now i can’t afford to replace parts if i bork em
If it was possible I surely would have for my last two computers. At least mine came with nubs and corners that enforced one orientation.
If you mix cables, between power supplies, definitely still possible
In early 2000s I had a power supply fail spectacularly, sudden arcing, lit up my whole apartment… To be fair, it was a case & power supply from the 80s…
The round peg goes in the…that’s right! It goes in the square hole
Yes!
https://youtu.be/baY3SaIhfl0
One of my favourite videos.You mean the ethernet shaped hole?
Just noticed they are wearing headsets for some reason xD
Isn’t that where they were getting the instructions from?
"If you have 1 bucket that holds 3 gallons, and 1 bucket that holds 5 gallons, how many buckets do you have? "
5 - 3 = 2. So I have ten buckets. Checkmate!
2 in base-2 is 10, so yes!
something something fourier transform FOURIEST transform
I watched TaskMaster. Good show.
Oh yea, I guess I need some electrolytes
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Building a PC? In this economy?
Specially in this economy since its cheaper haha
Honestly usually the only issue is that they give you barely any space to work with, a graphics card with like 2mm gap between it and a RAM stick
especially these fucking gpu’s nowadays…how the fuck am i struggling to fit stuff inside a fullsized atx case?
the GPU is basically a second , smaller computer inside your actual computer
[…] smaller […]
(X) Doubt
it’s not a tardis. If it’s inside your computer it can’t be bigger than its container
A computer is classically defined by a device having I/O, processing and memory working together. People colloquially call the assembled product a computer, which is fine, but it’s still technically a computer installed in a chassis.
However, a graphics card also has I/O, a processor, and memory and can perform tasks indepently, so it’s a computer installed in a computer installed in a chassis.
At least people arent calling it the CPU anymore…
once you attach a thing into another thing, it becomes a part of that thing, making the thing you attached it to larger. the end result is one thing that is larger than both components.
Thus, once you attach a graphics card to your computer, your computer is larger, and your graphics card is a smaller part of said computer
QED.
I am not taking further questions.
I think it’s more like the motherboard can be made so small now that the graphics card can easily dwarf it. Like a 5090 in an SFF PC.
That’s the premium upgrade
You obviously have an older generation.
It’s the mitochondria of your cell, the powerhouse if you will.
Physically smaller, but that’s only because they’re still designing it to be compact, where the motherboards are designed to be spread out. We’re still basically using the same setup that was used for the Voodoo VGA graphics cards in the 1990s, but the cards have more and more powerful, but also bigger and bigger.
It would be really nice if they re-thought the way the second computer connected to the first, and gave people more control over that second one. For example, mount the graphics card parallel to the motherboard instead of perpendicular, and give it more space to spread out so it’s easier to cool. And, speaking of cooling, allow us to mount our own coolers on the more easily. My graphics card is by far the loudest fan in my case. I want a quiet computer, so I want to be able to put a Noctua fan on my GPU, not just my CPU.
once you attach a thing into another thing, it becomes a part of that thing, making the thing you attached it to larger. the end result is one thing that is larger than both components.
Thus, once you attach a graphics card to your computer, your computer is larger, and your graphics card is a smaller part of said computer
QED.
Too damn true
I haven’t bought a GPU in years, but it’s absurd how they all seem to now take 3 slots.
The motherboard architecture really needs a revision in the modern GPU world. Instead of balancing it in a tiny slot, it should be stacked parallel with the motherboard and supported on all 4 corners (and possibly in the middle too to prevent sagging) similar to how the Raspberry Pi world has Pi Hats which go on top of the main board.
problem there is getting the entire industry on board, you inevitably run into the “now we have 1 more standard”-problem, cause the people running the standardized motherboard/case factories arent changing their setup unless there’s sufficient demand
which means stuff like this is relegated to the boutique luxury market, no economy of scale to drive price down.
my understanding far as PC case/airflow/gpu size is concerned, is that the gpu’s are large because of the attached cooler, it being large messes up the internal airflow dynamics of the cases/fans, which themselves were never meant to facilitate such large gpus. then you have stuff like weight of the gpu itself bending the pci slots cause those werent designed for these sizes either.
best answer imo is to just have the gpu’s setting vertically, air-outflow on the top of the case, intakes bottom/sides. this distributes the weight better and opens up airflow. thermaltake has a series like this called the tower which i’v been meaning to get my hands on
problem there is getting the entire industry on board, you inevitably run into the “now we have 1 more standard”-problem
True, but, this is one way where the near monopolies in the PC space are an advantage. If Nvidia makes the change on their own, all the motherboard companies would have to follow suit. If Nvidia worked with AMD it would effectively be a standard already.
Nvidia might want to do it as it stands because their main market these days is data center “GPUs” which are nothing like the gaming cards, so if they could make their gaming cards look more like the datacenter “GPUs”, they could possibly save some design time.
That and the screw positions. Why am I working with tweezers to bolt something into a 2’ square box? (Because the same hardware is used in laptops, I know, but ffs just ship with two screw sizes)
Buying a laptop tool set was a lifesaver for me, for weird but useful stuff like “screwdriver with a 10cm long shaft” and “electrician screwdriver” (those ones with a tiny led in them that lights up if there’s power where there shouldn’t be)
I ended up getting an ifixit-style set which helped last time, but I’m also clumsy so I’m constantly dropping screws on top of the motherboard, or under it. Whatever is hardest to get to.
Bloody typical
I was convinced that my gpu doesn’t fit. There is like a nano meter in between the backside of the gpu and the case. Like the metal touched and the clip hasn’t fully set yet.
I call it “assembling” a PC instead of “building” because I feel like I’m lying otherwise…
are you even good enough to have imposter syndrome?
Love it.
This isn’t building a PC, this is plugging one in.
And to the average person, there’s no difference regardless of how right you are.
This is the fastest part after the careful compatibility checks, purchases, opening of packages, attaching heat sink with thermal paste, and screwing in components.
Everything is easy until it isn’t.
I built my family’s, and my extended families, computers until the early 2010s, I’ll never do it again. Building the computer was fun and easy, being on the hook for tech support is time draining and soul crushing.
“Sorry Grandma, that cheapest possible 5400 rpm spinning drive is ten years old, you never backed it up, I’m really not the one to ask if you can get the pictures back. Okay we will try getting it to work as an external drive. Okay here we go, show me the folder you keep your pictures in. No this isn’t your desktop, (sign) we don’t need your hard drive to access your cable company provided email, yes the lemonade is wonderful (it’s bitter). Yes Aunt Martha’s cat is adorable.”
Children think about your future weekends. It’s great being a hero, but with great heroics comes endless responsibilities. There’s ways less entertaining than sex to lose all your free time to helpless family incoherent babbling.
yes the lemonade is wonderful (it’s bitter). Yes Aunt Martha’s cat is adorable.
90% of dealing with family while doing tech support is dealing with family.
Somehow, in the middle of doing whatever I’ve been asked over to do, I’m juggling a book of old family photos and three plates of snacks and every animal in the house and my mom is still upset with me because I’m not giving her enough attention.
That is why you ask for compensation if you have to leave your house.
Either they haul the thing all the way to your place, even leave it as necessary. Or they pay a sum of at least 20€.
That way they at least try to fix it themselves in order to not have all the hassle.
Yeahhhh… It’s suuuuper easy!
Nothing can possibli go wrong…
I usually use a razor blade to scrape all those fuckers off anyway. Don’t want any spikies poking my motherboard!
SMORT!!
Was there, used a plier.
Retract the lead in a mechanical pencil and slide it over the pin to bend it back.
I used the razor blade trick and got everything more or less aligned and upright enough that the processor is okay booting up with a second stick of ram in the machine lol
Tech YouTubers to the rescue lol, especially Linus and jayztwocents
Ugh I had to do this with an internal SCSI drive many years ago, it would only reliably save if you held the back of the cable in, otherwise the pin might short just enough that the operation wouldn’t work. But I was a broke Jr High kid so there was no choice. Bent pins give me nightmares to this day.
Had to do this recently and couldn’t believe it worked. https://lemmy.world/post/16160426
Haha sure, linus
I remember lifting one of these bent pins with a kitchen knife feeling like i probably was making the problem worse… but it ended up working fine
The horror! Seriously, I actually made the courier stand for 3 minutes while I did the CPU pins check.
