I guess DeSantis and Matt Gaetz aren’t on speaking terms…
The argument of punishment detering crime is bewildering. Like, you would think that after a few thousand years there would be evidence to support this argument.
People only bring up this argument to distract from the fact that their real motivation is primitive revenge.
And an easy way to rid themselves of folks they don’t like. Are you a pain in my ass? Guess your a pedophile
I got a brilliant idea. Lets make being homeless a crime punishable by death! We can solve the homeless problem by deterring homelessness!
Reminds me the most of when discussing corporal punishment with a friend of mine with regards to raising kids. He was up and down talking about how his dad had to beat the crap out of him to keep him in line, and of course with a few examples, I’d follow up with “did you do that again?”, “well yeah, I got beat for doing that over and over”.
and of course that’s ignoring the bigger part. Even giving the “punishment deters”… really it only goes in 2 forms.
It’s often ineffective because it hasn’t hit yet. AKA you haven’t got punished, therefore you know the punishment doesn’t apply to you.
Or you have been punished, and well you can handle it again.
Course death penalty is a one time issue obviously. But obviously also has the follow up where, it can be even worse because people are more hesetant to charge in the less obviously wrong scenerios. IE anyone with half a heart or a concern to protect kids will throw the book at a 50 year old diddling a 10 year old.
Laws generally have exceptions when a 19 year old has sex with a 17 year old. Somewhere out there though is greyer areas where most people would say it’s wrong, but it’s on the fence.
deleted by creator
Content not viewable in your region.
Please upload to Lemmy rather than a corp that deletes old pics of accounts without subscription.
Reminder that in Florida “pedophile” means “being trans in public.”
This is about killing queer people, not child sex offenders.
I know there’s Godwin’s Law. And yes, I always tried very hard not to bring up Hitler and not to compare Trump with him.
But as a historically inclined German I would like to point out that I simply cannot help but constantly find parallels between Trump / magaworld and the Nazis.
They keep hating on a small, completely innocent and harmless minority. They threaten their lives. It is truly shocking to me.
To anyone who still says “No, you can’t compare Trump to Hitler”, I say: Look at this list and tell me Trump isn’t a vile, disgusting demagogue.
The only difference to Hitler being (thank fuck!) he’s not hellbent on waging war on the entire world.
IIRC, the person who popularised the term ‘godwins law’, has come out to say comparing Trump to Nazi leadership is not a violation, as it’s comparing apples to apples, not hyperbole or strawman argument.
Edit, Godwin himself said it’s appropriate to compare the two
Hitler didn’t chicken out of serving his country during a war by claiming he had “bone spurs”.
I don’t have it saved but I’m sure someone does, that Tumblr post about how there shouldn’t be no exception death penalties for things because as soon as there are, Republicans are just gonna start redefining LGBTQ people as criminals in an effort to eradicate them. “Death penalty no exception for pedophiles. Oh trans people are pedophiles. Death penalty for trans people”. It’s been a little bit since I’ve seen it so I’m iffy on the details but I imagine someone will link it here to do the concept better justice.
Edit Found it, that was a pain in the ass to search for lol https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/45c407a0-332b-4226-9176-1bd2658bfc45.webp
This is exactly it. Death penalties are dangerous because words are ultimately meaningless, and as we’ve seen in the misinformation age, people of a particular political party (in the US) can call people pedophiles in name when there is no actual evidence that’s the case. Truth has gone by the way side.
What we really need is due process for figuring this shit out, as well as a properly funded remediation program so people can learn why what they did was wrong.
Came here to make this point.
You can be sure that when a person like DeSantis says “death to pediohiles” they’re thinking of trans people, not Trump.
Sorry, you mean anyone not white, straight, rich and male.
There really shouldn’t be any death penalty at all.
Any sort of “death to X, no exception” is pure rhetoric btw. It’s scary how strong that rhetoric is and how both voters & people with a lot of power support it, but afaik no rule of law knows any such thing.
Of course, the USA is this 🤏 close to tyranny, but not yet!
Nicer link btw:
https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/45c407a0-332b-4226-9176-1bd2658bfc45.webpAgreed. So many common sense arguments against it. And thank you for the nicer link!
I don’t have a Tumblr post, but I do have this.
Edit: Project 2025, page 5:
“Pornography, manifested today in the omnipresent propagation of transgender ideology and sexualization of children, for instance, is not a political Gordian knot inextricably binding up disparate claims about free speech, property rights, sexual liberation, and child welfare. It has no claim to First Amendment protection. Its purveyors are child predators and misogynistic exploiters of women. Their product is as addictive as any illicit drug and as psychologically destructive as any crime. Pornography should be outlawed. The people who produce and distribute it should be imprisoned. Educators and public librarians who purvey it should be classed as registered sex offenders. And telecommunications and technology firms that facilitate its spread should be shuttered.”Page 1:
• children suffer the toxic normalization of transgenderism with drag queens and pornography invading their school libraries
Page 5:
• Pornography, manifested today in the omnipresent propagation of transgender ideology and
sexualization of children, for instance, is not a political Gordian knot inextricably binding up disparate claims about free speech, property rights, sexual liberation, and child welfare. It has no claim to First Amendment protection. Its purveyors are child predators and misogynistic exploiters of women.
Page 8:
• Bureaucrats at the Department of Justice force school districts to undermine girls’ sports and parents’ rights to satisfy transgender extremists
Page 554:
• Capital punishment is a sensitive matter, as it should be, but the current crime wave makes deterrence vital at the federal, state, and local levels. However, providing this punishment without ever enforcing it provides justice neither for the victims’ families nor for the defendant. The next conservative Administration should therefore do everything possible to obtain finality for the 44 prisoners currently on federal death row. It should also pursue the death penalty for applicable crimes-particularly heinous crimes involving violence and sexual abuse of children-until Congress says otherwise through legislation.
Page 584:
• The new Administration should restrict Bostock’s application of sex discrimination protections to sexual orientation and transgender status in the context of hiring and firing.
Page 584:
• The President should direct agencies to rescind regulations interpreting sex discrimination provisions as prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, gender identity, transgender status, sex characteristics, etc.
To sum up: They want to remove protections for transgender people (equating them with pornographers), then criminalize being trans as a sex crime against children, thus classifying trans people as child predators, then enforce the death penalty for sex crimes against children. The result being that all trans people will be eligible for the death penalty simply for existing.
You should note that it’s from Project 2025 for those that won’t open the link.
Public libraries who purvey it. Wow. Yeah show me a public library hosting porn. Except that’s not actually what they mean, they mean books that contain topics they don’t like.
This is the problem with a post-Truth world.
People can use terms like “porn” or “pedophile” or any other word that it taboo and catches the public’s attention enough to sew doubt.
What we need are people catering to facts, and calling out this bullshit for what it is.
Good point, updated.
You should note that it’s from Project 2025 for those that won’t open the link.
Didn’t have to click the link. The lying and false equivalences gave it away.
Their main problem with libraries is the public part.
I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one who’s stumbled across someone realphabetizing their card catalog in the computer section. They could be thinking of that too, that’s no fun.
I buy that argument. Because as soon as you criminalize one sexual orientation, which we know are determined to be genetic in nature, like pedophilia, then you can criminalize any sexual orientation, like homosexuality.
The argument is flawed in the following way.
- If some crimes are punished more severely than others, then the government could accuse its critics of committing these crimes.
- Therefore, no crimes should be punished more severely than others.
But this conclusion is ridiculous. Some crimes should be punished more severely, possibly up to and including the death penalty.
My point is that if you do want to argue against the death penalty, this argument is not it.
EDIT: The only good arguments against the death penalty focus on the the kind of civil society you would rather live in — one that has a bureaucratic apparatus for killing people, or one that does not.
Arguments against the death penalty based on specific crimes are unpersuasive, since some crimes really do deserve death, morally speaking — the problem has always been an administrative one. Even if some violent (or even white collar) criminals deserve to die, building a bureaucratic apparatus to administer their deaths would make for an evil sort of society.
Most crimes have a clear victim that is hurt directly by the crime. Battery, murder, theft, vandalism, fraud.
The problem with laws about penalties for “being” something is that it’s an identity statement. There is no “victim” to someone “being a pedophile” unless a child is sexually abused, just as there’s no victim to someone “being a terrorist”. So, the fascist state works to subvert and divide by othering their political opponents with taboo labels of being “pedophiles” (trans people) or “terrorists” (“Antifa”… i.e. anyone who denounces fascism).
There is a categorical difference between those that is completely unrelated to your main argument. One could be in favour of severe punishment for first degree murder and be opposed to any punishment for “thought crime” without any contradiction.
That said, most progressive people who support LGBTQ+ rights (and, apparently, rule of law) also tend to be opposed to capital/severe punishment of criminals.
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
—Martin Niemöller
deleted by creator
Or, I dunno, maybe don’t have a sweeping death penalty? Just the fact that it’s prohibitively more expensive, and that far more often than is comfortable people who have been executed are later exonerated for their crimes. Can’t exactly “oopsie sorry” an execution. But that’s a whole different argument, granted.
deleted by creator
Just the fact that it’s prohibitively more expensive,
Bruh. I’m not even the guy you responded to but speaking of bad fucking arguments against the death penalty, that one is close to the top.
The state shouldn’t kill people because it is fucking immoral, not because it’s too expensive. Jesus christ.
This is more of a counter-argument. I’ve frequently seen supporters of the death penalty claim it is cheaper than housing the person in prison for life. But this is false.
Fair enough. Sorry for being a belligerent asshole.
Republicans actually want pedophilia legalized. People like Senator Jamie Pederson have said that if a girl has her period, even if as young as 8, then she should be in charge of her own sexual decisions.
This is Game of Thrones level creepy.
Do you have a source on that? I tried googling his name but all I got was that 13+ year olds have a right to privacy for their mental health treatments, not having to notify their parents.
Check further in the WA standard article. The discussion is about Healthcare, but the debate is that there is an agenda. This is the actual quote. By this logic menstruation equals the age of consent.
"If they’re old enough to get pregnant, they’re old enough to make their own decisions about what happens with their bodies, and parents do not have the right to change that,”
she should be in charge of her own sexual decisions
Not if she decides to use contraceptives, get an abortion, or have sex because she wants to. Obviously. But if she’s forced into something then that’s on her.
Nominative determinism?
Manifest destiny.
More like Jamie Paedoson. Amirite?
On a more serious note, why is this guy not fearing for his life?
The next spin is to try and just deny that the Epstein Files says anything bad at all.
Yesterday on Tiktok I came across no less than three videos with the same audio, of laughter, along with the exact same, word for word copy paste of something like “The Democrats’ faces when it’s revealed that the Epstein Files totally exonerate Trump and a majority of the Democrats are guilty. Watch them walk it all back.”
And people believe it
It’s truly amazing to me that somehow Republicans think democrats will see pedophiles on their side and then suddenly think it doesn’t matter. I guess because that’s what they’re planning to do. Another case of every accusation is an admission.
Is he threading to kill himself and the president?
So that’s why Megyn was splitting hairs the other day!
Yup. A lot of republicans are about to get super creepy on definitions.
Americans when they have the chance to kill anybody: 🍆
It’s darker than that - I can nearly guarantee the list these orders will be based off from is altered to include ‘speed bumps’ in their march toward full technoligarchy
Well actually…
Yeah seriously, aren’t Trump and DeSatan mortal enemies?
