Despite getting better and better with each season, Prime Video ultimately cancelled The Wheel of Time — and we’re still angry over it.
The first season was crap, but I felt like the show was actually getting better and better. It was never going to be as good as the books, but I was actually quite pleased with the last season. It sucks that it’s dead, but I honestly expected Amazon to kill it early since that is what they do.
Maybe if they’d actually followed the books the fans would have actually watched the show.
It’s so interesting that this always happens, and nothing changes. Yeah, this thing is cool, but i want to make something else.
The show needed saving before you released season one, though.
I couldn’t get into the book when i was younger and the show wasn’t great. However, one good thing it did show me is that it has a story good enough to try the books again.
The wheel of time is my all-time favorite book series. That show was a travesty, and I’m deeply saddened that we probably won’t get another adaptation in my lifetime. I place the blame with the show runner Rafe Judkin’s because he thought he could write a better story than what already existed in the books. The show was only loosely based on the source material. Everything from the writing, to the set building, to the costumes all looked so cheap, like leftovers from a spirit Halloween day after sale. Rafe was responsible for all of these as show runner.
LOOK AT WHAT THEY DID TO MY BOY LOIAL HE DESERVED SO MUCH BETTER THAN THIS.
Anyone who was interested in the series I implore you to check out the books. It’s a long series but the payoffs are some of the best in all of fantasy writing.
I for one am so fucking sick of series being announced just to find out they are loosely using the source material but mainly just making shit up that sucks. Looking at you Halo and The Witcher. Everything is already there, worked out in detail, all you have to do is adapt. But noooooo, the writers know way better than anyone else and we end up with minority representation where it doesn’t fit just to boost their numbers, armour that looks like old scrotums, and a fractured bullshit retelling of the story sort of. I’m over it.
Fuckin’ Master Cheeks. Such a fucking waste.
I just wanted to see Dumais Wells. That’s all.
The trailer alone for it would have soaked my undies.
Fade to black The lull roar of combat and screams of battle, the screen fades in on the face of Mazrim Taim “Asha’man…” The screen flickers to the a group of men bursting with viscous black and red fibers of light crawling into the ground.
“Kill”
The screen goes black and from a distance the ripple passing through the Earth rises to wash fighters from the battle field.
There is no fight. There is only the one power and true terror. A 5-second trailer would have done it. I wanted that and they took it from me.
I’m so disappointed. "
You just did a better job than $5 billion of Amazon money. Congrats.
As a fan of the Foundation book series I welcome you to the club.
Damn straight. When I saw the ads for the Foundation series they had a lot of action and stupid shit in them and I thought ‘hang on, I don’t remember any of that in the books’. That’s a big fat pass from me thank you.
The problem with Foundation is there’s a lot of jumping in time, especially in the first book, and despite the series being a great read, it’s a bit too ‘thinky’ to adapt easily to the screen. They really shouldn’t have bothered.
The problem with Foundation is there’s a lot of jumping in time, especially in the first book
That’s why an accurate adaptation should have been easy. The book is basically an outline and all they needed to do was fill in the blanks. Instead they completely changed the story.
Why the fuck do Ogier have afros
Dear God. I’m so grateful that I stopped watching after 30 min of episode one. That is one unsettling screenshot. How could they butcher that so fucking bad? Fucking carrottop? Realy?
All Rafe cared about were ginger ninjas. Everything else was secondary to that.
Don’t get me wrong he also did poorly at that but it had his attention.
It could have been so easy to just bring the books to life. I understand some things do not translate from the page to the screen, but that should be the exception and not the rule.
Robert Jordan’s work is some of the easiest to translate to the screen because of how descriptive and long winded he is with world building. They took too many creative liberties in the wrong direction with that show.
I tried really hard a few times with the first book and I just couldn’t do it. Mat it just so fucking dumb with every single decision. I understand characters needing conflict but jfc it’s so, so bad in the first book. I really can’t get past it. Wolf boy or whatever was cool for a bit but every 15 minutes the book has to go back to mat and him whining about how every stupid thing he does rightfully fucks him over. I couldn’t stand it by halfway through the book.
Mat sucks donkey balls before they get the dagger away from him. But, he’s also eventually the best character, so…
“Eventually” doesn’t cover it when we’re talking 30 hours a book on audiobook. Mat sucks for as much of the wheel of time as I’m prepared to tolerate.
No skin of my balls, just sayin’. You do you.
There are over 400hrs for the entire audiobook series, most of which Mat is the baddest of baddasses.
Sometimes the best story arcs come from drastic changes in the character, like going from super annoying to completely awesome. You thinking of him as making terrible decisions, being whiny and annoying may be a testament to the quality of writing since that was the foundation for his drastic change. He had to represent those characteristics to make his outcome that much more impactful.
You not liking him at that point of his story arc was the intention of the author.
Intentionally making your MC unlikeable while having a very weak cast for the first 60+ hours of your book series is certainly a choice as a writer.
That choice seems to have worked out well for Robert Jordan as Mat is the most beloved character from a cast of hundreds in his internationally acclaimed book series many claim to be some of the best fantasy written and was also adapted into a TV show.
It is hard to argue with results, which is what you are doing after only completing less than 15% of the entire series. You have every right to your opinion and also to stay willfully ignorant about the other 85% of the story you have missed. It’s not your cup of tea, I get it; but your opinion is easily dismissed because of that and rightfully so.
To me this is like someone only watching the first 30mins of the LotR trilogy and turning it off because I didn’t like Merry & Pippen’s hijinks. Or not liking Pink Floyd’s Dark Side of the Moon album because I didn’t like the first few minutes of the first song. You have every right to your opinion but your lack of exposure to the content invalidates that opinion for many people.
Mat is objectively the best character, hands down.
I have read all the books and even wrote a thesis on it when I was in a Masters program. I tried watching the show and it was almost as awful as the Shannara Chronicles.
Shannara is another travesty of adaptations, right alongside the WOT AND Sword of Truth tv show travesties.
Sigh… I was so excited about the sword of truth. Instead we got… Xena.
I’ve read as many of the Sword of Truth books as I could stomach and I would vastly prefer Xena.
I can respect that. And I liked Xena. I just didn’t like something not Xena turning into Xena.
Have you read any Sword of Truth books lately?
I quit at the one where Richard pulled himself up by his bootstraps so goddamn hard that he cured the world of communism and laziness, specifically by carving a really good statue.
Are you poor? Have you considered pulling an ungodly amount of talent out of your ass in the eleventh hour? Or just not being lazy?
Threw that book across the room and wondered how I’d even made it that far in the series.
Shannara was my way into fantasy and playing D&D. I love those books because at the time when I was in high school I found LOTRs to be unwieldy. The Sword of Shannara opened up the world for me and when the show was announced I was excited. The show runner even did an AMA on reddit and I flat out told him if he fucks it up he needs as ass beating. He assured me I would love it. I could not make it though the first episode without raging.
I always feel a bit bad for actors that put a lot of time into these multi-season shows only for them to get cancelled. Like I’m sure they get paid well, but money isn’t everything for someone in the creative arts industry. Pike and others would have put quite a lot of time into developing their characters and it would be frustrating not to get closure, not to mention they might have missed out on other opportunities due to scheduling conflicts.
Why on earth do you feel bad. She got to be a well paid actress for three years. At any one time 95% of all SAG members are unemployed. She got a good threes years.
Both things can be true though. Do you not feel sympathy for anybody who loses out on a passion project or has their “thing” cut short because others aren’t as fortunate? That can be extrapolated about 8 billion ways to the poorest person on earth.
You’re aware she’s not the only one acting, right? She’s not every stablehand and barmaid…
At any one time 95% of all SAG members are unemployed.
Wouldn’t this be a reason to feel bad when a handful of them lose their job?
No. It is part off the business.
I forced myself to watch the first season, and then promptly started a re-read of the books as a palette cleanser. I’ve heard the later seasons got better, but I can’t see how they could recover from all the weird plot, character, and lore changes.
…Was the last season any good?
I quit halfway though season 1, but pike was charismatic. She basically carried the show from what I saw.
I guess that depends if you think it was cool to cut gaul and just use aviendha instead? On that note don’t you remember the time
Tap for spoiler
Aviendha and Elayne hooked up? And also when they make Perrin ACTUALLY kill Geofram Bornhald? Idk man it’s the easy way out all the way down.
They made Perrin kill his wife too, because the writers were too incompetent to make the hammer-vs-axe choice in a better way. And then they never bring it up again, except for angst reasons.
Brando sando talked about that on reddit and for episode one I can almost accept it… Idk
It got really good by the time they cancelled it. Haven’t read books but my gf did and according to her while there were major changes to the original it was still quite enjoyable. I enjoyed it for what it was.
I’ve read them multiple times and agree with your gf. They’re two different things with the same characters. I liked the show less than the books but I still liked the show and I’m sad it’s gone.
I think part of the problem is that they deviated way too far from the source material so fan favorites never really got their time on screen. Add to that some things they had to do due to covid and losing a great actor (at least my favorite of the EF5) before season 1 episode 8 and having to scramble to fix that mess and they lost a lot of people who would have been their biggest cheerleaders.
These are not complaints of mine, just some observations outside the racist and sexist bullshit rhetoric that surrounded parts of the show fandom.
racist and sexist bullshit rhetoric that surrounded parts of the show fandom.
…dare I ask what this was about?
I don’t know anything about the books, but what could it possibly be?
They had brown people for the Emond’s Field folks. A group didn’t like that. The women were competent in the show (and more competent than the dudes) than in the books (aes sedai notwithstanding). A group didn’t like that. Twice a woman did something seemingly impossible based on the rules set forth in the books. I actually agree that one of them was problematic, but not because it was a woman. My issue with it was that it was just a senseless and unnecessary change. But I didn’t run to the Internet to talk about how it ruined the show, the world, my faith in humanity, and how it’s the worst thing that ever happened to anyone ever.
So there was a split between people who read the books. People who enjoyed it overall (me), people who didn’t enjoy it because it changed too much from the source material (a valid stance and I see why they felt that way), and a persistent and loud group who were mad about brown people and women (shitbags).
It’s the weirdest complaint to me too because the only character that it really seems like we know has to be white is Rand and that’s only because typically only white people have red hair.
When I first read it I thought him being singled out as a white guy with red hair and that being so notable probably meant that tall redheaded white dudes are kind of rare around these parts. People guessed his ethnicity just by looking at him too.
The idea that everyone else would be some other shade of skin makes perfect fucking sense in that context.
I don’t like the way that they broke the rules of magic. It changes the stakes in ways that make the story less compelling but all of the racist and sexist nonsense is pathetic and sad. I’m not sure how people could read 14 of these books and come away thinking, “men are like this and women are like that” or some shit.
I’m not sure how people could read 14 of these books and come away thinking, “men are like this and women are like that” or some shit.
People that can only understand literature at a surface level, and don’t grasp things like nuance, sarcasm, etc. So basically, people who haven’t advanced past an elementary reading level.
The irony is that one of the more constant themes in the series is that the men think women are a certain way, and the women think men are a certain way, but those viewpoints are contradicted nearly every other chapter.
I didn’t like what they did at the end of season 1. That was a last second rewrite due to covid restrictions and because they were missing an actor. I understand what happened and why but it created two huge problems, one with the way magic worked and the other was a character issue. It didn’t kill it for me personally, but I can see why it would turn people off.
But man, I agree. In Eye of the World Elaida pulled up Rand’s sleeve to see how white he was without road dust and the kind of sun exposure that comes from farming. She saw how light skinned he was. Which tells me that the two rivers folks were darker than him. And the EF5 had never seen anyone else with his color eyes. Super weird complaint.
Even if that didn’t happen, it’s a fantasy book. The only real rule was that it’s been an isolated village for a while. Not enough time for evolution to entirely homogenize skin color, but quite a large chunk of time. So we’re looking for folks that look like they belong in the same country and an outlander who could fit in if he had enough time in the sun.
I also didn’t understand why people wanted to make sure that if they didn’t enjoy it no one could. I’ll never get that. It didn’t retroactively change the books. It hurts no one by just existing. And I doubt we’re getting another adaptation anytime within the next several decades whether this was finished or not.
And no matter what anyone thinks about anything, Rosamund Pike was fucking amazing. I stand by that no matter what anyone thinks about any of it.
…That’s sounds about right :(
TBH I’ve seen this happen to a lot of fandoms, especially those in ‘dry spells’ that cling to the first bits of canon a little too hard.
Then someone like me, say, walks in on an Andor dogpile and has no idea what’s going on, until I realize “Oh. They changed something.” And ‘shitbags’ complaining about skin color or gender are almost always the loudest, yeah.
Sad…
TBH having a bad first season is a huge hit to a show these days. That’ll turn away the vast majority of streams.
I thought the last season was great, though I have no idea how faithful it was to the source material since I haven’t gotten that far in the books. However, the show is what recently got me to start reading the books, so say what you will about it, but I think the show at least had that positive outcome me.
I stopped when Rand went to Tar Valon almost at once and met Loial, and Loial failed to give the traditional aiel greeting when believing Rand to be aiel… I just turned it off mid episode
I hate watched it to the end of S1 but it was clear in the first couple episodes they were going to destroy the book narrative and replace it with a vastly inferior one, meaning i would never get to see the wheel of time on screen, which is the only reason I watched it in the first place.
My biggest problem was it being on Amazon prime. Sure I’ll sail the seas to watch it on day, but that doesn’t help it keep getting made and I’m sure as heck not giving Bezos money if I can help it
The show was trash, she was great in it.
Im not. This is what happens when you eff with the source material.
I’ve not read the books, but I did not care for the series. I only got 2 episodes in.
I wish someone would make a good high budget Earthsea series.
I wish someone would make a good high budget Earthsea series.
There’s the 2004 miniseries, but it’s neither of those.
Is it the Syfy one? That one was meh.
I actually liked it when it aired. Then I read the book series and realized what travesty was committed by the SeeFee channel and why it pissed Le Guin off so much.
I had read the books a long time ago and loved them. So it made me sad to see that they weren’t properly honored.
unfortunately yes.
The books good but not great. Cool ideas but the writing could be better. My friend read a lot more of them than I did and after the original author died another guy picked up where he left off and those ones are apparently better.
You should just read the Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind though. Disney tried to make a TV series about it and they fucked it up real bad.
Edit: wow people are really offended by my opinions of some fantasy novels. Sorry, everyone.
Sword of Truth started okay, but I felt it quickly became a tract for Goodkind’s libertarianism, fascism, racism, and misogyny.
Huh, I did not pick up on that. Sword of Truth is better-written than the Wheel of Time imo.
Not only is it not better written, it’s notorious for literally stealing things from The Wheel of Time straight up. It’s some of the most blatant plagiarism I’ve ever seen in my life.
Also I refuse to believe you didn’t pick up on the libertarianism. He literally dedicated one of the books to Ayn Rand. The Sword of Truth is the worst book series I’ve ever read my life.
it’s notorious for literally stealing things from The Wheel of Time straight up.
I don’t disagree. I read SoT first and am aware it was written after WoT. That sucks but I had a hard time getting through WoT due to the writing style.
I refuse to believe you didn’t pick up on the libertarianism. He literally dedicated one of the books to Ayn Rand.
I listened to the audiobooks, mostly while driving. They don’t read who it was dedicated to, IIRC. I’ll have to check that out. I did pick up on some general philosophy that I disagree with on more than a few of the books, but it’s fantasy, it didn’t really bother me.
I also listened to WoT audiobooks, and the narrator makes a huge difference. In SoT they had this narrator, Sam Tsoutsouvas, who is just incredible.
Well I’m with you on the Wheel of Time audiobook narrators. I’ve never liked them at all.
Yeah the whole old empire thing was basically a giant socialism strawman (including equal distribution of sex from pretty women, lol) that he totally destroys by showing everyone by example how to pick yourself up by your bootstraps. And his author blurb says he a member of the Ayn Rand society or something like that. That shit didn’t start creeping in in a big way until the later books though (correction: it started early, I didn’t know he wrote 26 of the things). It was enough to put me off his follow-up series.
Edit: Shit, apparently he wrote 15 more after I stopped with book eleven, which really felt like a complete end to me, I was surprised way back then that there were any more. I don’t know how he managed to milk it that much.
He definitely milked it too much. In the later books he brought back some of the things from some of the early books which was frustrating.
Undoubtedly, at least until Brandon Sanderson took over. I enjoyed the last few books so much more due to the significantly better writing quality, but felt bad because Sanderson only took over because Robert Jordan died.
It’s also worth noting that the guy who picked it up was chosen by the previous guys editor (and wife), and was a consultant for at least the first season of the show… and while he offered some pointers, he ultimately thought the showrunners went in a direction he didn’t think was the best.
He’s also Brandon Sanderson, who’s known now for his connected universe works spearheaded by Mistborn and The Stormlight Archives.
“Another guy” Brandon Sanderson is an amazing author not “another guy”.
Haha I have the exact same opinion, right down to strongly preferring sword of truth.
I got through like 4 books of wheel of time and was just straight bored and put the series down, something I rarely did back then. It felt like the author didn’t know where he was going any more than the characters did… maybe I’d like it more now, but meh.
I loved the sword of truth series, actually read it througg because of the tv show. It was not good.
A fun power fantasy, but it just got more and more formulaic and preachy over time.
The crazy thing is a huge chunk of the first book was a BDSM femdom fantasy, with both hard and soft dommes represented, and the series got less subtle after that.
I’m probably in the minority, but i liked the Sword of Truth TV series more than the books.
I thought the series (of books) was great. The only complaint I had at the time was I thought 2-3 books around the start of the second half should have been condensed into one. But if I was reading it now with them all out it might not bother me. At the time I would be pretty annoyed that the main plot didn’t move much and now I had to wait for the next one.
This show was utter trash from the start. It’s scores are bought. There’s no way season 3 gets a legit 97%. All cap.
I’m delighted this nightmare of an adaptation is dead.
I liked it and I’m sad it’s gone. So there.
I also liked the books.
So it’s your fault, then.
I agree. Clearly that guy’s fault.
They ruined it for all of us!
Haven’t seen season 3 but I’ve been enjoying the show. I stopped in book 5 and started rereading the Sword of Truth and couldn’t go back.
… I don’t know if I’ve ever been more offended by a comment in my life.
Agreed. SOT is a preachy capitalist charade that never fully delivers on the fantasy it teases. I did enjoy it up to like, faith of the fallen. WOT is a vastly better epic fantasy.
I heard a rumour that the choice of show was between Wheel Of Time and Julian May’s Saga Of Pliocene Exile (my favourite sci-fi / fantasy series). At the time I was gutted we missed out but, seeing what Amazon did with WOT, I think we dodged a bullet.
I’ll try to upload a photo by Nick Dudman who was commissioned to make some artwork for the proposed SPE show (Felice at the Ship’s grave).
Never heard of it, but from the wiki article sounds cool
I’d definitely recommend it. The series is really 4 books that split the story into 2 parts: The Many Coloured Land and The Golden Torc comprise Part 1, and then Part 2 leads towards an amazing finale with The Nonborn King and The Adversary.
If you want more books from that universe, there’s a link book (Intervention) that joins the Saga of Pliocene Exile to the Galactic Milieu Trilogy, comprising Jack The Bodiless, Diamond Mask and Magnificat.
