Republican Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene said she will introduce a bill to end H-1B visas, which allow companies to bring skilled foreign workers, days after Donald Trump backed the program.
Wow, this is extremely stupid. Like getting on the freeway and shooting your tires on a turn. We’re gonna be spiraling for a while from that moment until all the dust clears.
Normally I’d just ROFL but this is the era of stupid so instead I’m going to assume that stupid will happen.
So our technology will be ejected to other countries and that will start a global economic boom outside our country. Which is great for those countries. But that also means our country will be less advanced. We won’t have the edge.
Let’s hope our kids make better choices.
This isn’t going anywhere. Trump will be against it just because she’s for it. Democrats won’t go for it.
The fact is H1B visas are problematic and necessary. I don’t think anyone wants to take too close a look at it.
Ahahahahahaha
It’s counterproductive and racist all around but holy hell is it funny when these goobers fight each other.
Dude they turned on her so hard for just not pivoting when Daddy did. Bless these cult antics
The program doesn’t need to end, it needs to have severe restrictions on use.
It 100% needs to end…
Like, how it was intended was fine, but now it’s used to get employees who can’t quit. Sign them to a contract that doesn’t get OT and make em work 100 hr weeks when here till they burn out then replace them.
So Americans need to put up with it, or they won’t get hired.
Yep, it’s basically slavery via holding the visa for foreign workers who have to put up with the corps holding their status over their heads, all while driving down pay for citizens. It was a good thought, but it’s being heavily abused now.
It was a good thought, but it’s being heavily abused now.
I’m not sure when it was a good idea and I also don’t know a time when it was not being abused, if I’m being honest. At least in IT (and in general, engineering, or so I’ve heard) going back to the 90s…
Now, the other threat they hold over our heads is that companies will just outsource if we don’t allow this, but that’s not a law of nature or anything, either. There is no reason we should not tax such services like that, too.
America kept telling their youth (and probably keep telling them) to “learn to code” because those were the jobs they were told Americans should aspire to, etc. Since I’ve been in IT since the 90s, I have more than my share of doubts about this promise, since I’ve seen how we are treated and the strong desire in the corporate world to suppress wages, benefits, any sense of autonomy, etc…if America is serious about this message, maybe they ought to look out for the workers.
I’m not sure when it was a good idea and I also don’t know a time when it was not being abused, if I’m being honest. At least in IT (and in general, engineering, or so I’ve heard) going back to the 90s…
Well the H1 came decades before (and still exists, its more generic), and the B was supposed to be specific gaps for skilled workers - longer term allowed, you can change jobs on this one (the original requires you to get a new visa, the h1b you just need to file a petition), allowed for a longer stay which was helpful for people trying to become citizens, it was meant to be used far, far, far less than it is today and has limited that are constantly ignored, etc,
The H1B came out in 1990, it only took a few years for companies to work around the limitations that were intended and use skyrocketed.
So probably for around 2-3 years it was a good idea.
It’s not really slavery…
Because you can quit, you just go back to your home country.
And your home country might suck, but if you got a H1B, you’re upper class. No one goes from starving to getting a 100k salary in tech on a H1B.
It’s more like how Americans work on an oil platform. They come here to earn a shit ton of money on a short timeline, then go back home where the money is worth a shit ton more instead of spending here or even “investing” it.
but if you got a H1B, you’re upper class.
No? You just need an engineering degree from a half decent university or a similarly valuable skill and you’re set, and in a weaker economy there’s no guarantee you can even find work with that degree or skill. I mean, in plenty of places computer science/engineering degrees have only recently come to be seen as valuable.
Because you can quit, you just go back to your home country.
When someone hangs a carrot over your head and says “if you want to stay, do what I say” that’s a form of slavery.
And your home country might suck, but if you got a H1B, you’re upper class. No one goes from starving to getting a 100k salary in tech on a H1B.
You’re right and it kills the need for the local citizens to get paid properly when a company has the option to pay way under market for someone who’s home country might suck.
It’s more like how Americans work on an oil platform. They come here to earn a shit ton of money on a short timeline, then go back home where the money is worth a shit ton more instead of spending here or even “investing” it.
And this isn’t an issue because???
Not ever bad thing is slavery…
But you don’t seem to understand any of this
Nobody said every bad thing was slavery.
It was getting abused since at least the 90s, at least as far as I could see. Sure, it was anecdotal as far as what I saw, but you’d hear others saying similar things.
The sad thing is that even after the dot-com bubble, we still had H-1Bs, when something like that should have been an obvious trigger point to shut them down to zero, at least within IT jobs, and only raise them above zero once some other trigger point is reached, and even then, only very cautiously.
If companies really need to find such rare talent, maybe they find some kind of way to have Congress build them a path to bring someone in as a full citizen and work. We’ll see how many “shortages” of local talent they have once all that rare talent are also free agents entirely capable of finding another job, LOL. I think the real “shortage” they are talking about is a lack of workers beholden to them, and willing to work for less than the prevailing wages…
maybe they find some kind of way to have Congress build them a path to bring someone in as a full citizen and work.
I agree with this in principle (the whole concept of citizenship is frankly fucked up in the first place), but you don’t even need to go that far. There are much less oppressive work visa programs out there.
I was laid off from my first job soon after I trained an H-1B loaner engineer.
Just because the Nazis are tearing their throats out, doesn’t mean any of them are on your side. In fact, they have already proven they will never be on your side.
Therefore, it is perfectly acceptable for you to enjoy watching them tear each other’s throats out
Lepards ate each others faces!
Americans can totally do all these high skill jobs they just need some training!
Usually starting with an engineering degree…
It’s not just the skills but the pay. H1-Bs are not too far off from slave labor since the person is tied to the company. H1Bs should be allowed to switch employers (after some initial trial period) and it will make them more expensive to keep, leveling the playing field with US workers.
leveling the playing field with US workers.
Why would the powers that be want that lmao
Let’s get them that
“There is no Royal Road to Geometry, Your Highness”
I have long thought - since the 90s - that the H-1B program needs a lot of oversight and a revamping on exactly how it is governed, but I don’t for a minute think that MTG understands the nuance here. Trying to talk about this in certain company is always fun, because it’s like trying to talk about Israel in the early 90s - you’d get accused of being a nativist or whatever immediately w/ almost no thought, just like talking about Israel in frank terms would get people called “antisemitic”. It seems that, like the Israel thing, it’s kind of broken through into the national conversation at least vs. just people within IT only. Unfortunately, it seems to be nativists like Bannon and MTG trying to make the counter H-1B arguments, and I hate that.
If we really cannot find local talent for an endeavor, and it is truly something that is rather time-bound, sure, bring in people for 3-6 years, I guess.
But I think the terms that the person is under should not be something where they have much reliance on the good graces of a company. And I think finding easy paths for them to transition to full citizenship if they so wish should be there. And I think the requirement should be that they are paid 2x what the going rate here might be.
But using these visas for cheap labor for companies to exploit in things like programming jobs - most especially in a crappy job market exacerbated by things like AI - well, hell to the no. We have PLENTY of that talent in this country, FFS. Companies just want to suppress the cost of doing business here.
And for people saying that this is the alternative as opposed to shipping jobs overseas - bullshit, we can tax the shit out of overseas services, too. Apparently, Pedonald is even able to do such things as tariffs on goods without an act of Congress; it would be something that could be done on services as well.
Ending H-1B will only further accelerate domestic layoffs for outsourced talent. 🙄
Because there was something stopping them from outsourcing from the start, or what are you trying to say?
I don’t really know anything, I am just lamenting the decline of my line of work… between out-sourcing and AI… maybe I should just go back to making pizzas like i’m 20 again 😏
Sorry. AI took your pizza making job. It’s now reccomending the newest popular pizza topping. Bleach.
Why do you think that?
mostly pessimism as I watch colleagues slowly get laid off for AI or off-shore dev work (i’m a software engineer). I suppose If they have to offshore anyways, might as well go all in. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
To be clear I, personally, don’t have any problem with H-1Bs i’m just pessimistic on what companies will take as an action item from this. Man, i’m just pessimistic about software engineering as a career in general lately.
I’ve been doing this for thirty years. I don’t see any reason to be pessimistic about software development. Right now I think we’re going through a rough patch. About to get tougher, I think, because we’re on the cusp of a big downturn in the economy, right on the heels of an industry downturn caused by Trump’s first term.
Long-term, though, there will continue to be a need for good software developers. And their best efforts will continue to be hobbled by unrealistic timelines and pressure to get things done over getting them done well, thus ensuring we will continue to need ever more developers to continue developing the same things over and over.
So you have no idea how it affects you, despite it being something that affects your career…
And instead of doing any type of basic research, you’re just making random guesses nd hoping for the best?
I’m shocked you have a job to worry about losing
Guy, it’s a Lemmy post, I am not running for office. People are allowed to have opinions without them being fully fledged thesis papers.
You said it’s something that concerns you…
In the time you’ve spent making random guesses and defending your own ignorance, you could have learned about it…
Because without those visas, the non-American talent can’t be employed, and the US simply doesn’t have the local talent to fill those spots.
Which means companies will have only one way to keep up with the talent demand: employ it abroad. Which reduces the amount of tax paid to the US government, the amount of money that circulates in the economy, and so on.
Because without those visas, the non-American talent can’t be employed, and the US simply doesn’t have the local talent to fill those spots.
LOL. America has tons and tons of local talent. The job market is actually very tough right now since there is so much of that talent.
Companies just want to drive down wages to much lower levels, and claim they cannot source local talent here, which is a blatant lie in every case I’ve seen - which is in IT.
The fact that you believe there’s actual talent overflow in the US makes me question just what you might consider “talent”. A warm body with the ability to turn on a computer is not “talent”.
The talent is there but it’s not cheap. Why would a company hire 1 US engineer for 100k per year when they can hire 5 Indian ones for 20k per year each(made up salary numbers but the point stands)
Companies will always look for the cheaper option. If you ban H1B1 visas then they will just outsource the whole thing if it’s cheaper than hiring local talent.
Companies will always look for the cheaper option. If you ban H1B1 visas then they will just outsource the whole thing if it’s cheaper than hiring local talent.
I think serious consideration should be about closing up that loophole, too. If companies want to enjoy access to American infrastructure and the American market, they should be willing to pay Americans a competitive wage for that. If companies start using offshored talent, there is nothing stopping that from being taxed so high as to make it cost-prohibitive.
No, the talent simply isn’t there in the numbers companies would need them. And this isn’t limited to the US only - even here in the UK, it’s a struggle to hire good talent, because the fields are incredibly muddled, especially since AI-aided engineering came to be.
For example, I work in software engineering. My role, aside from being a senior engineer, a systems architect and designer, also involves hiring. We’re actually hiring in a number of countries, US included, and I’m overseeing most of it. The applicant rates are simply abysmal. HR pre-filters our candidates, and that usually boils things down from around 1000 CVs to about 50 who actually make it to first roster, and from that 50, we end up actually interviewing maybe 5, because the rest obviously lack the required (and clearly indicated!) skills. And even from those 5, more often than not we choose none to hire because they don’t really reach the bare minimum for the position (and to be perfectly fair, the bar isn’t set too high). I’ve recently had a candidate who had a Masters in Computer Science and some 8 years of work experience, yet couldn’t name base components in the specific segment he’s been working in, nor could he define basic terms like SOLID or KISS.
And I’m hearing similar experiences from other fields too. Reality is, there’s not a lack of people but a lack of talent, which often needs to be imported. And blocking that import will simply result in the companies moving to locations where they can source the talent or where the talent is willing to move to. Previously that was the US, because even though the situation was quite shite, your country has done a great job hiding that via media propaganda. Now it isn’t, simply because y’all had to elect a racist demented dipshit.
There is no law of nature that could not be taxed accordingly, too, but the country needs to have this option presented as part of the conversation.
That threat is always thrown out there to keep people from questioning H-1B as if we need to answer to wayward corporations, instead of the other way around…
Is there no middle ground, like keep the program but invest in education and tax incentives for hiring from US universities?
The H1B program is broken because it ties employees to their employers; it needs to be replaced with at least a work visa model with more freedom for immigrant workers.
I think there are lots of options that could be explored. One is if these are for truly research types of things, maybe keep a smaller amount of the visas, but only for that. And make it easy for them to become full citizens if they wish. Make it easy for them to float between entities (corps, universities) so that they are truly free agents in the marketplace, etc., even if they don’t opt for citizenship.
Another would be to find ways to fast-track truly rare talent right to a path to citizenship that is not tied to an entity at all. Or maybe it is, but for maybe three months as a trial run, then they are full citizens free to work for anyone (or not at all, or go to school again), and vote, etc…
But as for stacking the deck for corporations with lots of compliant cheap labor to be used in IT and engineering, keep American workers in line, and drive down wages…nah.
The supposed aims and the rationales given for the H-1B are easily punctured the minute you ask - wait a minute, if these are such precious commodities that cannot be found here, why the fuck would we send them packing in 3 to 6 years? Why wouldn’t we do everything possible to entice them to stay and become full citizens? Surely they’ll end up starting up businesses of their own, etc…it’s truly the American dream. Why are we subbing a 3 - 6 year gig for the American dream, FFS?
