Wars and proxy wars since 1776.
EDIT: The post is not an endorsement of the USSR. You can now stop fighting for your “team” and start defending the anti-war values you claim to uphold.
If you think the USSR wasn’t, then you’re not actually smarter for thinking that, you’ve just fallen for another country’s propaganda.
The USSR was not communism. Even if you protest and hold ground that it was communist, it does not represent communism and was objectively separate from anarchism. You argument is akin to saying that the USA is democracy.
Communism is to the USSR is what freedom is the United States. If you squint a lot they kinda almost had it.
Well said.
They’re not wrong in this specific case though.
Republican-style whataboutism. Nice. I never defended the USSR and this still doesn’t change U.S. history.
If you unironically look at this image and do not understand how it is perceived as in support of the USSR, then the school system is worse off than even I realized.
Yes, you did not explicitly say it. But the natural inference is that these guys on the right, the USSR and the anarchists, are correct. To shamelessly sit there with your hands folded over like “well I’m only suggesting they’re right about this one specific thing, no one else should ever make any deeper inferences or assumptions, and it’s their fault if they do,” is either incredibly dishonest, or incredibly stupid.
Both! It’s probably both.
You literally put a Soviet flag in your meme. You could’ve made your point without that, so yeah, don’t complain when people point out the obvious implication.
This ignores the anarchism flag. Clearly, the post is not an endorsement of any particular regime but of leftists more broadly. Leftists have been protesting and fighting immoral wars and imperialism for generations. It’s appropriate that they should be represented in the message.
But, let’s be honest, literally any leftist flag would be used to detract from the point of the post. People in this thread aren’t even talking about the decades-long wars, drone strikes, civilian casualties, “weapons of mass destruction” etc. How convenient!
Was the USSR actually “left” lmao
I feel like people don’t understand the origination of left and right, at all.
No. People can’t get past the propaganda and the fact that while the revolution started as a leftist movement, it was quickly captured by reactionaries who transformed the liberatory movement into a repressive police state. Police states cannot be leftist, full stop.
who transformed the liberatory movement into a repressive police state. Police states cannot be leftist, full stop.
I mean, leftism typically centers around who controls the means of production and is largely defined in economic terms.
I think the Soviets would argue against being called a repressive police state, especially in Russia where they made huge strides in liberty compared to serfdom under the empire. They would argue you have to maintain a dictatorship of the proletariat to ensure the means of production remains in the hands of the people.
Where I differ in this belief is the expansive nature of the Soviet government, and the difference in treatment of Russians under the system compared to especially non Slavic groups within the USSR.
They have lots of arguments but they’re all bullshit. Leftism is about more than economics, that’s a particular Marxist obsession. Leftism is broader than that. But even if you want to focus on economics alone (which is ridiculously myopic since other political topics obviously have a direct impact on economics), workers in the USSR lost control of the means of production almost immediately. State control is not liberation, particularly when that state is repressive and undemocratic.
And being left of the Tsar doesn’t make you a leftist in the modern context. If that’s the case then Donald Trump is a leftist.
The USSR was a fascist regime, and anarchy is not leftist.
Fuck off.
Man, whatever mental inhibition that prevents the pale apes we call humans from recognizing that Music.aly remains the same company despite changing its name to TikTok will never cease to enrage me.
You’re tagged as a dishonest idiot.
…
Is this some sort of analogy or did you comment on the wrong post?
Republican-style whataboutism. Nice. I never defended the USSR and this still doesn’t change U.S. history.
You see this? This is your comment. Your comment and the attempts to explain it away betrays the mind of either someone with severe difficulties with object permanence (we’re talking you need to be diagnosed with Aphantasia) or you are simply dishonest.
Hence my comment and your new tag! I hope that helps.
I would throw an insult back at you but the type of comments you’re writing tells me how your life is going. I hope writing snarky shit on the internet is making you feel better.
Blocked by the way.
Da, unlike peaceful soviet socialists who only use peaceful tanks to bring unity, whether or not other nations know they need to be unified. Or Anarchists who merely seek to gently dismantle society and bring harmony to the world by cleansing all threats to that harmony.
The first half is fine, but the left side is some unhinged 1984 doublethink. “Our imperialism is the good kind. The other side is the bad imperialists.”
I dunno, they are literally holding a gun to the back of the “Proud Liberal’s” head.
There’s a moon spider on them. We just can’t see because the image is from 1969.
Using violent tactics is not synonymous with war mongering. Maybe a definition helps to differentiate the difference “A warmonger is someone strongly pro-war. Warmongers favor war above all other options.”
What anarchists talk about cleansing? Are you referring to the dictatorship of the proletariat in Leninism?
You can’t just make things up about an ideology and then argue like the thing you made up is true and well known. That makes you exactly like the meme you’re making fun of.
A lot of anarchists do seem to want a big purge. I’m not saying that’s inherently part of the ideology as a whole—I’m fairly sympathetic to anarchist ideals. But I’m not as sympathetic to terminally online weirdos who just want an outlet for their impotent rage. And a lot of such people do call themselves anarchists.
I feel that difference exists for every ideology, though. Like a terminally online socialist or communist are also full of impotent, misguided rage.
Speaking from experience, when a terminally online inset -ist ideology here shows up for their first in person meeting, they usually require some amount of reframing.
where does anyone say “our imperialism is the good kind?”
What’s the purpose of that Soviet flag?
to indicate those under that flag have been saying “always have been” - it’s the meme.
It’s rich to use it when it is that Russia is actively conquering and annexing territories of sovereign states.
tip: two things can be true at once and calling one out (the usa) does not mean you support the other. grow up.
It’s lying at worst, misleading at best.
Also who are these anarchists cleansing dissidents?
The Red Terror during the Spanish Civil War comes to mind.
No ideology is without its fanatics.
Thanks, I’ll read up on it.
But from what I’ve read so far, the violence wasn’t exclusively from anarchist groups and more of mass violence from all leftist groups during that time towards clerics and rightists?
The violence wasn’t exclusively from anarchist groups, but in anarchist-dominated areas, the anarchists committed the same kinds of violence that other leftists did.
This isn’t to say that the anarchists were not the best of the lot, by far. Only that the notion that anarchists don’t engage in unjustified mass violence against political enemies because of the sheer purity of their convictions doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.
I gotcha. I believe it. Have any book recs on the topic? Think this’ll probably be the my next lil history read after I’m done 100 Years War on Palestine
edit: topic being spanish civil war period
Most of this is recollected from college. I can definitely recommend Orwell’s Homage to Catalonia for a ground-eye view of the Spanish Civil War in general, though.
Stupid Americans. Fight wars like the like Britain, France, Spain, The Netherlands, Sweden, Portugal, Germany, Belgium, Italy. Good honest colonial powers who only ever fought on the good side of just wars and never created massacres.
Why choose other imperialist powers as though this is a representative sample? Unless you’re arguing that every country is equally bad–thereby excusing the US from its war crimes–its unclear what these examples are meant to prove.
The down voters need to take a closer look at what the USA was doing in all their wars
The military industrial complex is pretty well known at this point. I suspect they agree with the message, but don’t like that it’s coming from someone further left than Democrats.
You can go further left than the Democrats without pandering for another warmongering, imperialist nation.
I don’t recall doing the latter. Either there’s an implication to the post that I’m not picking up on or you’re strawmanning me.
I sincerely hope this is some extremely high level “I can only perceive things in their most literal sense” genuine (non-durogatory) autism going on here. The other option is far less kind.
So instead of giving a straight answer, you would rather shift the burden to the person asking you what the fuck you’re talking about.
I can only assume you’re equating the hammer and sickle with the USSR rather than with communism more generally. The anarchism symbol underneath should clue you in to the fact that the post is not an endorsement of any particular regime. Ironically, you’re the one perceiving things in their most literal sense.
My brother in Christ, it is their flag. You didn’t use random hammer and sickle iconography. It’s the flag of the USSR.
I suspect you know exactly what you are doing.
Do you expect someone to make a flag that perfectly describes their personal philosophy for a shitpost on lemmy. To me it states that they hold some “extreme” (whatever that means anymore) leftist values and nothing more.
Dod sounded like a Dutch man saying death. Which is also funny.
There’s a lot of Lemmy users around here who should be wearing that badge.
Won’t even admit the US proxy war with Russia is happening 😂
You could maybe argue that when Biden was in office. Right now it is as much proxy war as Germany and USSR invading Poland in 1939.
Orange turd being in office kinda just throws everything to whack, even long standing US plans. The current US/Ukraine proxy war plan was in motion LONG before Biden was in office
Please go read a book. I recommend Road to Unfreedom by Timothy Snyder it gives a better understanding what’s going on for the past two decades. And despite being published in 2018 it made it clear that the 2022 full invasion would happen sooner or later.
by Timothy Snyder
Wow. Of course I would see that piece of shit nazi apologist being recommended on a .world post. But from a db0 user? Just wow.
