Pretty sure Jews outside of Israel are against what the Israeli state is doing to Palestine. But for Israeli Jews, unfortunately, last time I saw the survey, most of them approve of kicking the Palestinians out of Gaza and West Bank. They may not like Netanyahu and most know that he is prolonging the war to artificially extend the lifeline of his regime, but most approve of the overall right wing policies of Likud towards Palestinians.
Older Jews in my experience are zionist no matter their leanings.
I’ve heard people trash trump in one breath and go on to say “wipe them out” in the next.
Not to say all. Never. But the disconnect is there. Especially when they have family in Israel.
Have seen the moral fight in their mind as they watch the news. Most I saw someone admit was that they “were so tired of all the killing” and maybe a “netanyahoo” here or there.
To be fair if people had been coming into my country and blowing shit up and murdering people then settling on the land for the last 50 years both myself AND my parents would have known pretty much nothing else and I’d be pretty likely to view them with nothing but rather coherant hatred.
But if all they have is poorly guided rockets, they are risking civilians. And that only encourages Israel to continue to also kill civilians as it technically targets militants or their resources.
I mean taking pot shots at targeted killing of soldiers themselves. I’m okay with that, they are legitimate targets after all. Many freedom fighters consciously avoid civilian deaths. Although in the case of Hamas, they don’t care. Being under oppression is not an excuse. I can’t belabor the point further, many freedom fighters before consciously avoid civilian deaths. It is not like there was no precedence for Hamas not to follow.
As opposed to what? Sitting back and quietly folding their hands in their laps while their children are mowed down by machine guns and blasted into dust by air strikes?
They could surrender unconditionally. Like France did under Blitzkrieg. It doesn’t mean giving up forever, but it stops the worst of the killing for now.
Yes, that’s valid. Just like Europeans colonizing the americas. Should native Americans be firing rockets as US civilians? What do you think would happen if they did?
If US citizens were to this very day continually encroaching on the small amount of sovereign land they have left? Being complete open with their stance that they intend to colonize every inch of their homeland and oust them from the area entirely? Mobbing and killing native Americans, all backed by the full force of the national military?
As would living under rocket fire and being surrounded by countries that call for your destruction. Pretty shitty for all. So what’s the solution? Some might argue Israel was being relatively progressive and slowing giving more freedoms to Gaza up to the October attacks. They might argue that such freedoms actually allowed those attacks to be so ‘successful’. Some might argue that the only path forward to peace is the complete destruction of one side’s military capabilities.
Oh no they support fighting back against the people who have fired rockets at them for decades and who send “settlers” to kill them and steal their land and whose soldiers keep shooting at children going to school and-
You’re an unserious person with a terrible take. I hope if anything bad happens to you that you submit immediately and no one comes to help you.
Yes, Israel has continued to steal West Bank land, and if not target civilians, then at least wantonly disregard civilian collateral damage. And it’s evil. But let’s not forget the full scale attacks on Isreal, the suicide bombings, the border attacks, the October attack and the continuous rocket fire at Isreal lately. Both sides have kept this going; it’s just that Israel has the capability now to do more damage and is apparently no longer worried about it’s international reputation.
Oh shut up. The Palestinians aren’t doing attacks for fun and they don’t have the backing for some kind of proper warfare with the Israelis to get them off their land. It’s not a mattee of opinion; they were their first and people from other countries without the right to do so told the people who would become the Israelis of today that it was totally cool for them to show up there. There was literally video of some guy from the fucking Bronx taking part in stealing a Palestinian family’s home, it’s fucking crazy what’s happening there.
It’d be like if I sent a bunch of people with guns to your house because I promised someone else you don’t even know that they could have it. And then, if you did anything in protest I beat the shit out you and shot your dog.
Yes, it’s like that and it’s horrible. It’s like Europeans taking over North America. It’s like countless other wars of conquest. In the end, Israel isn’t going anywhere; surely you know that? We can try to pressure them to take care of the (most recent) indigenous population, but if you say they can’t protect themselves or secure their population’s safety, they will necessarily ignore you. Pick your battles.
Their safety? Literally it’s just rocket after rocket after rocket from them. They’re complaining about safety while they commit countless acts of genocide against the people that were already there. They’re literally and openly trying to exterminate every single Palestinian in Gaza and they’re doing it with terrifying ease and no substantial pushback.
Good fucking god, I hope that every single time someone hurts you you just let it happen, and even defend their right to do it. I hope you never stand up for yourself, and no one else ever stands up for you. I hope you are pummelled into submission while everyone watches and does nothing to help you except for occasionally throwing a bandaid at you, and maybe even a few say that you were asking for it when you get your own blood on your attacker’s clothes even though that happened after they hit you(and is stupid). And I hope, at the end of all that, you get a fucking clue. God, you are a piece of shit.
Yes, their safety.
Hamas, and other groups were (and still are to a lesser extent) firing rockets at Israel. Israel has a right to not want to live under that danger. Before the Oct attacks, they were actually slowly increasing freedoms and self control in Gaza. Sure, now they’ve gone nutto in revenge, or blind destruction of any and all militant capacity in Gaza with zero care about civilians. I don’t support that! But you still need to look at the perspective of all sides - Israel doesn’t want to be in danger from rocket attacks any more. They believe it’s been shown that any peace process doesn’t work. So they’re going the other way since Hamas refuses to surrender. As well as being unconscionable, I don’t think it will lead to long term peace. I condemn Israel’s current policies. But I also condemn Hamas and the like that keep this going and attempting to kill Israelis - whether or not you think their vengeance is justified, it only leads to more deaths - and solidifies Israel’s path of destruction.
And so Isreal has the right to respond to attacks. It’s pretty horrible how they’re doing it and I sure wish they’d take the moral high road instead of going to the gutter like they are. Of course, their adversaries would do worse if they could. Doesn’t excuse it in my books, but I can see where they’re coming from.
You speak as though there are two people groups on equal footing doing atrocities here. As if both sides have done the same level of destruction and murder… That’s the crazy part in my opinion.
It would be as if a 6 year old went and punched a bodybuilder, and the bodybuilder went on to curb stomp and break multiple bones in the child’s body, and then people defended his retaliation.
No. Israel is clearly doing a lot more atrocities now. But taken in the context of the last 80+ years, it’s no 6yo punching a body builder situation. Israel has seemingly had the military advantage since its inception, but it has not been immune to great harm. The Oct attacks proved that it was still very vulnerable against an enemy who will always seek Israel’s destruction. Israel’s strategy now is abhorrent but there is context that makes it militarily logical, even if morally bankrupt.
If a teenager cuts in front of me in line at the movies, that doesn’t mean I have the right to burn down the entire movie theatre with a molotov cocktail.
What if it’s your neighbour firing random gun shots at your house for months or years, putting you and your family at risk of great injury or death? You have a rocket launcher - do you use it to eradicate your neighbour and keep your family safe? Or is that unjustified escalation and you’d just take random pot shots back?
Well if the entire state of Israel were me, then Hamas would be a 14 year old who listens to Kanye. Edgy and annoying, but not dangerous. There’s no way Hamas can actually destroy Israel.
Also Israel told the troops at the border to stand down and let October 7th happen.
Doesn’t work like that. If people were taking pot shots at your family, you wouldn’t stand for it even if your whole country wasn’t at risk.
And you assertion that Isreal let the Oct attacks happen on purpose is unlikely to be true at best, and more like ridiculous conspiracy conjecture.
Pretty sure Jews outside of Israel are against what the Israeli state is doing to Palestine. But for Israeli Jews, unfortunately, last time I saw the survey, most of them approve of kicking the Palestinians out of Gaza and West Bank. They may not like Netanyahu and most know that he is prolonging the war to artificially extend the lifeline of his regime, but most approve of the overall right wing policies of Likud towards Palestinians.
Older Jews in my experience are zionist no matter their leanings.
I’ve heard people trash trump in one breath and go on to say “wipe them out” in the next.
Not to say all. Never. But the disconnect is there. Especially when they have family in Israel.
Have seen the moral fight in their mind as they watch the news. Most I saw someone admit was that they “were so tired of all the killing” and maybe a “netanyahoo” here or there.
But Israel is Israel.
And unfortunately most Palestinians are supportive of attacks on Israel. They’re a whole lot of stubborn evil over there all around.
To be fair if people had been coming into my country and blowing shit up and murdering people then settling on the land for the last 50 years both myself AND my parents would have known pretty much nothing else and I’d be pretty likely to view them with nothing but rather coherant hatred.
I’m all for targeting military personnel but not civilians.
But if all they have is poorly guided rockets, they are risking civilians. And that only encourages Israel to continue to also kill civilians as it technically targets militants or their resources.
I mean taking pot shots at targeted killing of soldiers themselves. I’m okay with that, they are legitimate targets after all. Many freedom fighters consciously avoid civilian deaths. Although in the case of Hamas, they don’t care. Being under oppression is not an excuse. I can’t belabor the point further, many freedom fighters before consciously avoid civilian deaths. It is not like there was no precedence for Hamas not to follow.
Fair. But there were also a lot of attacks on Israeli civilians.
As opposed to what? Sitting back and quietly folding their hands in their laps while their children are mowed down by machine guns and blasted into dust by air strikes?
They could surrender unconditionally. Like France did under Blitzkrieg. It doesn’t mean giving up forever, but it stops the worst of the killing for now.
Its been over 80 years. Its not occupation, its colonization.
Yes, that’s valid. Just like Europeans colonizing the americas. Should native Americans be firing rockets as US civilians? What do you think would happen if they did?
If US citizens were to this very day continually encroaching on the small amount of sovereign land they have left? Being complete open with their stance that they intend to colonize every inch of their homeland and oust them from the area entirely? Mobbing and killing native Americans, all backed by the full force of the national military?
Yes. They ought to retailiate.
Isn’t that exactly what Americans did do to their native population? How long has to pass after before it’s ok?
It’s also what Hitler did. Guess what moron, genocide isnt okay no matter who does it. What was done to the natives was completely vile.
You have been brain washed into thinking what is being done is actually defendable. You are basically this generations Hitlers youth.
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You are defending the numbing of schools and hospitals.
Living your entire life under apartheid will do that to a person
As would living under rocket fire and being surrounded by countries that call for your destruction. Pretty shitty for all. So what’s the solution? Some might argue Israel was being relatively progressive and slowing giving more freedoms to Gaza up to the October attacks. They might argue that such freedoms actually allowed those attacks to be so ‘successful’. Some might argue that the only path forward to peace is the complete destruction of one side’s military capabilities.
You are defending the bombing of schools and hospitals.
No I’m not. It’s abhorrent. Both sides need to stop firing rockets that could harm civilians. Better yet, stop firing all rockets.
Oh no they support fighting back against the people who have fired rockets at them for decades and who send “settlers” to kill them and steal their land and whose soldiers keep shooting at children going to school and-
You’re an unserious person with a terrible take. I hope if anything bad happens to you that you submit immediately and no one comes to help you.
Yes, Israel has continued to steal West Bank land, and if not target civilians, then at least wantonly disregard civilian collateral damage. And it’s evil. But let’s not forget the full scale attacks on Isreal, the suicide bombings, the border attacks, the October attack and the continuous rocket fire at Isreal lately. Both sides have kept this going; it’s just that Israel has the capability now to do more damage and is apparently no longer worried about it’s international reputation.
You are defending the bombing of schools and hospitals.
Oh shut up. The Palestinians aren’t doing attacks for fun and they don’t have the backing for some kind of proper warfare with the Israelis to get them off their land. It’s not a mattee of opinion; they were their first and people from other countries without the right to do so told the people who would become the Israelis of today that it was totally cool for them to show up there. There was literally video of some guy from the fucking Bronx taking part in stealing a Palestinian family’s home, it’s fucking crazy what’s happening there.
It’d be like if I sent a bunch of people with guns to your house because I promised someone else you don’t even know that they could have it. And then, if you did anything in protest I beat the shit out you and shot your dog.
Yes, it’s like that and it’s horrible. It’s like Europeans taking over North America. It’s like countless other wars of conquest. In the end, Israel isn’t going anywhere; surely you know that? We can try to pressure them to take care of the (most recent) indigenous population, but if you say they can’t protect themselves or secure their population’s safety, they will necessarily ignore you. Pick your battles.
Their safety? Literally it’s just rocket after rocket after rocket from them. They’re complaining about safety while they commit countless acts of genocide against the people that were already there. They’re literally and openly trying to exterminate every single Palestinian in Gaza and they’re doing it with terrifying ease and no substantial pushback.
Good fucking god, I hope that every single time someone hurts you you just let it happen, and even defend their right to do it. I hope you never stand up for yourself, and no one else ever stands up for you. I hope you are pummelled into submission while everyone watches and does nothing to help you except for occasionally throwing a bandaid at you, and maybe even a few say that you were asking for it when you get your own blood on your attacker’s clothes even though that happened after they hit you(and is stupid). And I hope, at the end of all that, you get a fucking clue. God, you are a piece of shit.
Yes, their safety.
Hamas, and other groups were (and still are to a lesser extent) firing rockets at Israel. Israel has a right to not want to live under that danger. Before the Oct attacks, they were actually slowly increasing freedoms and self control in Gaza. Sure, now they’ve gone nutto in revenge, or blind destruction of any and all militant capacity in Gaza with zero care about civilians. I don’t support that! But you still need to look at the perspective of all sides - Israel doesn’t want to be in danger from rocket attacks any more. They believe it’s been shown that any peace process doesn’t work. So they’re going the other way since Hamas refuses to surrender. As well as being unconscionable, I don’t think it will lead to long term peace. I condemn Israel’s current policies. But I also condemn Hamas and the like that keep this going and attempting to kill Israelis - whether or not you think their vengeance is justified, it only leads to more deaths - and solidifies Israel’s path of destruction.
I’m supportive of attacks on Israel too. They’ve got nukes, we need to disable those.
And so Isreal has the right to respond to attacks. It’s pretty horrible how they’re doing it and I sure wish they’d take the moral high road instead of going to the gutter like they are. Of course, their adversaries would do worse if they could. Doesn’t excuse it in my books, but I can see where they’re coming from.
You speak as though there are two people groups on equal footing doing atrocities here. As if both sides have done the same level of destruction and murder… That’s the crazy part in my opinion.
It would be as if a 6 year old went and punched a bodybuilder, and the bodybuilder went on to curb stomp and break multiple bones in the child’s body, and then people defended his retaliation.
No. Israel is clearly doing a lot more atrocities now. But taken in the context of the last 80+ years, it’s no 6yo punching a body builder situation. Israel has seemingly had the military advantage since its inception, but it has not been immune to great harm. The Oct attacks proved that it was still very vulnerable against an enemy who will always seek Israel’s destruction. Israel’s strategy now is abhorrent but there is context that makes it militarily logical, even if morally bankrupt.
If a teenager cuts in front of me in line at the movies, that doesn’t mean I have the right to burn down the entire movie theatre with a molotov cocktail.
No matter how fun it would be
What if it’s your neighbour firing random gun shots at your house for months or years, putting you and your family at risk of great injury or death? You have a rocket launcher - do you use it to eradicate your neighbour and keep your family safe? Or is that unjustified escalation and you’d just take random pot shots back?
Well if the entire state of Israel were me, then Hamas would be a 14 year old who listens to Kanye. Edgy and annoying, but not dangerous. There’s no way Hamas can actually destroy Israel.
Also Israel told the troops at the border to stand down and let October 7th happen.
Doesn’t work like that. If people were taking pot shots at your family, you wouldn’t stand for it even if your whole country wasn’t at risk.
And you assertion that Isreal let the Oct attacks happen on purpose is unlikely to be true at best, and more like ridiculous conspiracy conjecture.
https://kayhan.ir/en/news/142078/soldier-unveils-hidden-commands-leading-to-gaza-invasion
Israel has exactly as much right to defend themselves as Nazi Germany did