For a second time in a week, a federal grand jury in Virginia has refused to indict New York Attorney General Letitia James for alleged mortgage fraud, sources say.
I think it’s so rare because grand juries have an insanely high indictment rate. They typically don’t convene them unless they know for certain that they’ll indict. Which is why it was so rare up until the current administration.
When they wanted to prosecute the guy who threw a sub sandwich at the ICE agent, the Grand Jury shot them down twice. So they altered the charges so they didn’t require a grand jury to go to court.
In court, the ICE agent whined about how he had PTSD, since the sandwich burst open on his uniform, and smeared mustard and onions all over it, which he had to smell all day, causing massive psychological harm.
The defense introduced a photograph of the sandwich, laying in the road, AFTER the throw, and it was still tightly wrapped. It hadn’t burst open, no mustard or onions were smeared. The ICE agents entire testimony was a straight up lie. The jury found the sandwich thrower Not Guilty.
So I suspect that their next move will be to adjust the charges to bypass the Grand Jury.
But in the past it wasn’t necessary because, as the saying went, you could get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich. The bar to indictment is incredibly low. So, it’s actually extremely embarrassing to have the media talking about how you keep trying and failing.
They generally don’t though because the burden to indict is SIGNFICANTLY lower than the burden to convict. Anyone that you cannot even get an indictment for isn’t likely to be convicted at trial.
Yeah, except that dealing with a legal defense costs a lot of time and money. So even if they can’t convict they can use the courts as a means to punish.
Really shows how much our legal system needs an overhaul to prevent abuse like this.
also grand juries take significantly longer time to be seated than regular trial, enough to hurt working people financial situation, that arnt well off for jury service.
Yeah, I wasn’t disagreeing. My point was that the norm was not getting an indictment on a grand jury was embarrassing and hurt someone’s career. This disincentivized prosecutors from repeatedly bringing a case to a Grand Jury. But Trump and his cronies don’t care, breaking the norm, and will keep pushing to get what they want.
That was the norm for the past century. The norm for centuries before that was that the King could fuck whoever he likes, metaphorically or literally, for any reason.
My point is Trump can keep brining it to a Grand Jury cause it effectively costs him nothing. It only takes one grand jury to indicate and then Trumps political enemies (Comey/etc.) are forced to pay legal fees (amongst other things).
My point is Trump can keep brining it to a Grand Jury cause it effectively costs him nothing. It only takes one grand jury to indicate and then Trumps political enemies (Comey/etc.) are forced to pay legal fees (amongst other things).
It makes sense though. It’s not an actual trial, just a test to see if the prosecution has strong enough evidence to support an indictment. If not, they keep digging.
While true, Federal prosecutors historically don’t even bother with charges if they’re not sure of a conviction. This is just explicit evidence that this DOJ is both incompetent and focused on politics not justice.
I only learned like last year that you can keep convening grand juries until you get one that indicts. Seems kind of strange to me
I think it’s so rare because grand juries have an insanely high indictment rate. They typically don’t convene them unless they know for certain that they’ll indict. Which is why it was so rare up until the current administration.
When they wanted to prosecute the guy who threw a sub sandwich at the ICE agent, the Grand Jury shot them down twice. So they altered the charges so they didn’t require a grand jury to go to court.
In court, the ICE agent whined about how he had PTSD, since the sandwich burst open on his uniform, and smeared mustard and onions all over it, which he had to smell all day, causing massive psychological harm.
The defense introduced a photograph of the sandwich, laying in the road, AFTER the throw, and it was still tightly wrapped. It hadn’t burst open, no mustard or onions were smeared. The ICE agents entire testimony was a straight up lie. The jury found the sandwich thrower Not Guilty.
So I suspect that their next move will be to adjust the charges to bypass the Grand Jury.
But in the past it wasn’t necessary because, as the saying went, you could get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich. The bar to indictment is incredibly low. So, it’s actually extremely embarrassing to have the media talking about how you keep trying and failing.
Edit: I should have said it was rarely necessary.
Unless a cop has murdered someone, of course. Then it’s BARELY legal to convene a jury.
Ahh… To live in a time where “shame” was a thing again…
Not just keep trying and failing, but doing so multiple times in just a couple months. This DOJ is run by incompetence.
They generally don’t though because the burden to indict is SIGNFICANTLY lower than the burden to convict. Anyone that you cannot even get an indictment for isn’t likely to be convicted at trial.
Yeah, except that dealing with a legal defense costs a lot of time and money. So even if they can’t convict they can use the courts as a means to punish.
Really shows how much our legal system needs an overhaul to prevent abuse like this.
Which is the whole point of grand juries.
We’ve gone for a century with prosecutors being afraid to test the grand jury because it’s embarrassing to miss and mostly pointless.
Now we’re seeking out fake prosecutors who don’t give a fuck.
Because embarrassment is not a thing in US politics anymore. Turns out it was pretty much the only thing holding everything together.
also grand juries take significantly longer time to be seated than regular trial, enough to hurt working people financial situation, that arnt well off for jury service.
Yeah, just another destruction of norms.
Kind of. There was a reason to create the grand jury concept in the first place.
Yeah, I wasn’t disagreeing. My point was that the norm was not getting an indictment on a grand jury was embarrassing and hurt someone’s career. This disincentivized prosecutors from repeatedly bringing a case to a Grand Jury. But Trump and his cronies don’t care, breaking the norm, and will keep pushing to get what they want.
That was the norm for the past century. The norm for centuries before that was that the King could fuck whoever he likes, metaphorically or literally, for any reason.
They’re bringing back old norms.
There’s no defense at a grand jury hearing. So at least that’s free. Likely not stress free.
My point is Trump can keep brining it to a Grand Jury cause it effectively costs him nothing. It only takes one grand jury to indicate and then Trumps political enemies (Comey/etc.) are forced to pay legal fees (amongst other things).
There’s no defense at a grand jury.
My point is Trump can keep brining it to a Grand Jury cause it effectively costs him nothing. It only takes one grand jury to indicate and then Trumps political enemies (Comey/etc.) are forced to pay legal fees (amongst other things).
It makes sense though. It’s not an actual trial, just a test to see if the prosecution has strong enough evidence to support an indictment. If not, they keep digging.
While true, Federal prosecutors historically don’t even bother with charges if they’re not sure of a conviction. This is just explicit evidence that this DOJ is both incompetent and focused on politics not justice.
Yeah, 100% the system is being abused. But like the Comey thing, they still need to follow the right procedures or it will backfire.