cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ca/post/59378754
The calls for a nationwide (US) shutdown this Friday (Jan 30) are growing louder
I’m all for protesting in any way possible but a general strike in three days seems really ambitious. Most strikes take months to arrange since people will need to stock up on food and household items or they risk the strike ending before the strikers get their demands.
These kinds of strikes are intended to be short term, it’s a single day strike. It’s not about stopping work until demands are met, yet. It’s about proving to those in charge that there are enough people in agreement that the next step will be much more costly if things don’t change.
Sometimes they are smart enough to get the message, other times they either think they’re smarter because they are narcissistic or inherently will win because of money.
At this level though if you actually manage to coordinate an effective strike day, what you usually end up with is hundreds or thousands of smaller organizations that can’t survive and prolonged strike siding with the strikers and getting changes made, because the cockweasels at the top still rely on the smaller companies they stepped on to get there.
That’s how I see this as well. It’s a shot across the bow much like the one day strike in MN.
Many people in the US have no experience participating in this sort of thing. I hope that this is a wake up call for the citizenry as much as for the corporations and oligarchs running the country.
The problem with a “shot across the bow” is that to the enemy it can just look like you are missing and wasting ammo.
Yes, a warning shot does rely somewhat on the intelligence of the opponent. But that is their problem.
In this analogy, though, if you even get 10% participation in a one-day cessation of economic activity, that is something the companies and therefore the governments notice. It is not something they want to repeat, or get more popular participation. It is in fact better than a warning shot in that respect. It is an attack on the money.
I think you are ascribing a lot more importance to 10% than economists and capitalists do.
Nearly 60% of of day to day spending is by the top percentage of the wealthiest. I am trying to be a realist here. The bottom 60% of Americans make up about 20% of the spending, 10% participation would be about a 4% change in profit which recent Tariffs have been higher and more impactful.
It is not a good idea to keep purposefully missing while the enemy isn’t wasting their shots. Cause they are landing most of theirs.You’re talking about a boycott. A strike is people refusing to work
And yet most of the comments in here are talking about doctors appointments and going out for dinner. I am confusing it but it seems I’m not alone in that.
We are not in the right crowd to organize a strike, which would be better with actual business owners involved, but I understand we should get what we can.
Why is it so bad to take an honest look at what we are trying to accomplish and our methodology? I thought Lemmy liked science and actual data. I’m peer reviewing this so we can adjust the methodology and try to focus better.
I want to succeed I am just not gonna pretend we get there without effort.
As far as I understood it’s supposed to be a one day strike but repeating every friday which is a great way to build up the necessary momentum.
How much food do you need to eat in 24 hours that this is a concern for you?
That’s not the concern. A 24 hour strike isn’t a strike. That’s a protest. Most strike last for days or weeks because you want to get something out of the strike.
A general strike doesn’t last for weeks. A strike and a general striker different things.
Striking workers are trying to change business decision, but if everyone participates in a general strike it causes enough damage in a day that it’s effective. The threat is you’ll do it again if things don’t improve.
A general strike doesn’t last for weeks.
A Finnish general strike in 1956 lasted for 20 days.
In 1905 the strike lasted 7–9 days depending on the city, and the shortest one we’ve had was 6 days.
What’s the point? Anything you delay doing that day we will made up with spending in the future.
General strikes are illegal in the US. The people coordinating them could be arrested. Also, jobs can fire workers on the spot for participating in them, even if the workers are part of a union and the union want to participate. There are no protections for this. Not to mention, national guards have been sent in to shut down general strikes in the past. There’s a reason they never happen. The likelihood of one ever succeeding is highly unlikely considering the current situation. Doing it multiple days? You realize most people live paycheck to paycheck? Nobody wants to tell their kids they’re going to be homeless.
You realize most people live paycheck to paycheck?
Yes, that’s why it takes months to organize a normal strike, let alone a general strike. A one day strike isn’t a stike, it’s a protest.
The difficult thing is people need to organize it outside of work. If management gets wind of that kind of stuff, they can fire and replace any workers they know are participating long before it actually happens.
That’s highly illegal if we’re going by the NLRA.
Now whether those companies get a wrist slap for firing people in today’s political climate? That’s a different question entirely but firing someone for striking or organizing a strike has been illegal for almost a century.
General strikes are illegal in the US.
It’s not illegal to strike on a date with other people. It’s illegal for unions to call for a “general strike” because it’s considered them calling a strike on behalf of other non-union employees for other businesses.
Also, jobs can fire workers on the spot for participating in them
Not always, (though yes, it would probably be likely for many people) since they can use things like sick/vacation days conveniently timed right, or if they’re backed up by a union, they might have a contract that helps to prevent at-will firing without certain specific causes, excluding striking.
However, if enough people strike, it’s kind of hard to enforce coming into work via firings, as it’s similar to if an entire unionized company goes on strike. What are you gonna do? Fire every single worker and shut down for good the next day because the only person running every single operation is the remaining CEO?
even if the workers are part of a union and the union want to participate.
As long as the union doesn’t say “this is a general strike” and just says “we are striking on this date for better working conditions”, and that date happens to be the same day other unions are striking, it’s legal. There is no law preventing different unions from striking on the same dates, and it would take very long for any legal process to try and make that claim before the strike has already occurred.
national guards have been sent in to shut down general strikes in the past.
This is the most likely outcome in my opinion. However, it’s still kind of hard to actually enforce the end of a general strike. It’s one thing to arrest someone, or to stop them from doing a given thing, but it’s another to forcibly remove people from their homes and make them work no matter their condition or reason.
Essentially, I’m saying it’d be messy.
Doing it multiple days? You realize most people live paycheck to paycheck? Nobody wants to tell their kids they’re going to be homeless.
This is the biggest hurdle, though there is a degree to which it can be mitigated, at least for a little while. For example, there are a lot of people with backyard and community gardens, small businesses with stockpiles that are willing to support their community as we’ve seen with the current situation in Minnesota, not to mention that if the situation got bad enough you’d probably just see people stealing from their nearest billionaire-owned store because fuck it, why not screw them over more?
To clarify, I’m not like, disputing your actual overarching thesis here, or saying a general strike is easy or likely to succeed, I’m just saying it’s not entirely impossible :)
since they can use things like sick/vacation days conveniently timed right
American workers live in such a different world. Not once in my 34 years on earth would it have occurred to me to go on sick leave or spend one of my holidays on strike. Absolutely insane.
You realize most people live paycheck to paycheck? Nobody wants to tell their kids they’re going to be homeless.
People have to realize the alternative is having their kids growing up in a fascist regime, where they can be murdered on the streets without consequences simply because some “regime official” is having a bad day.
I am not saying it’s easy but it also won’t get any more easier when people don’t act now. In the end stage people trying to resist the regime will be insta killed or worse. Now you can still talk to like minded people and organize. Tell them you want to strike but are afraid of the consequences, maybe they will offer help.
These strikes don’t really work. If you’re stocking up in anticipation then you’re not really striking because you still contributed a day earlier.
A better option would to just go local.
That is a very short amount of time to organize a nation.
It’s also ineffective in the short term as a strike, because the rich will just wait it out. One day of slightly lower productivity isn’t going to grind things to a halt. What makes a strike powerful is that it continues until grievances are remedied. A true strike takes months or even years to organize, and it takes a lot of unionized money to keep people from going broke during an extended strike. After all, the strikers need to be able to wait out the rich and powerful. Those union dues are largely to allow the union to pay striking workers.
However, with all of this being said, this kind of thing is good for normalizing strikes. America largely doesn’t strike. But if you can establish a new normal for protests, it makes the larger things much much easier to organize in the long term.
It doesn’t make sense to me, I honestly doubt retailers will even notice.
Everyone who does actually participate will just buy their stuff the day before or the day after.
An ongoing boycott of a specific vendor makes much more sense to me. Easier for everyone to do, and more impactful.
This sounds like a wildcat strike to me. Not perhaps the most effective means to an end, but important when there’s no other outlet. A good outcome may be establishing better unions. The mere threat of a strike should have capital shaking in their boots.
I wouldn’t expect many people in an actual union to take part in this because that _would _ be a wildcat strike.
In my experience with CWA it was like the ending of Animal Farm - could not see much difference between them and management. There are so many things that must happen before you would even hear the whispered hint of a strike.
I hear a lot about IWW. All hype?
Read up. Last Friday was no purchases, this friday is no work and no purchases. This is not a short term thing (unless we decide to have a general strike with clear demands soon.
I am happy to hear it’s supposed to be a regular thing. This can lead to great momentum. Reminds me of fridays for future which became a huge worldwide movement (sadly disrupted and essentially killed by Covid).
Oops, I didn’t realize last Friday was a no purchase day. I only spent $5 at a secondhand store, so the spirit was still there.
Let’s get it boys and girls. I’m ready
They should strike on a Tuesday instead.
I’m all for this. My Tuesday meetings are the most annoying.
Why?
- cause it’s generally the most productive day of the week
- to silence any voices claiming they’d only do it for the long weekend
Taco Tuesday!
Freedom Friday is the same day
honestly where the fuck r the unions? we need them
literally illegal in the US for unions to call for a general strike, its insane
They were captured decade ago, first by organized crime and then by the industries. Unions have never modernized for the digital age.
There has also been a huge, prolonged campaign of union busting specifically to weaken their power in these political scenarios
But that has been happening since unions first started, when they burned strikers and their families alive.
Unions are made of normal people and the normal US citizen pretends to be a millionaire thus doesn’t need to be in a union.
Also the ratio of people that want to be in a union to positions available in a union is like 1000:1
You can just join a union, they don’t have a wait list…
Tell that to all the people who’ve been on Union wait lists for years.
https://www.iww.org/membership/ It’s literally the easiest thing in the world to become a member. There’s strength in numbers, so please join.
How will this help me get off the waitlist and into a union job?
This will get you to be a union member and you will be able to bargain collectively.
The high paying jobs will come once enough people are organized in your industry. You can’t have it the other way around.
In my area the only union jobs are government employees and a few contractors that contract with the government. My wife has a union job but they’re almost impossible to get. I’ve never been able to land one.
I’m curious what made US companies that much more successful at destroying unions than the companies in my home, Denmark. It’s not like companies weren’t trying their hardest to fight unions in the early 1900’s. People died at the strikes and protests.
In my area the only union jobs
what you do is join a union independently of your job
Good question. NLRB would be nice to have, too.
There is no union in my industry.
I am in the pot industry. None of those will help me.
AFL-CIO is the umbrella = every industry falls under it
Even if the unions aren’t involved, this is a walkout/boycott, not a general strike.
There need to be actual demands before life returns to normal for the government to feel actual pressure.
Is it better to skip work entirely or go and just goof off? Probably the former?
No call no show sends a stronger message if you’re privileged enough to be able to do that. If not, call in sick. Or go-slow all day. Do what you can.
privileged enough to be able
My European mind can’t comprehend this. Strikes are a right for every single worker, even the most unprivileged ones (with very few exceptions for public safety reasons)
Where in Europe? General strikes are illegal in Germany
I’m from Italy. Here general strikes are common. I know that France also goes strong on strikes.
I’m surprised they’re illegal in Germany. You should fight to change that.
They should have a general strike demanding the right to general strikes.
I don’t see how it’s enforceable, you don’t have to picket, just no one shows up for work at that same time, what are they going to do?
To elaborate on the situation in The Netherlands: You can only strike when certain conditions are met. In short, you use it as a final measurement to force your employer to change something if other less radical measurements were ineffective.
In this case, most employers have absolutely no influence over whatever ICE does, so I’d highly doubt a strike would be ‘allowed’ for something like this over here in The Netherlands.
Depends where you work, I suppose.
Is there no union or organization locally that you can ask? Protest isn’t an individual action, it’s a social organized action, so you ideally should get involved with local orgs or your work’s union for this
Oh, that’s an idea. Unfortunately my work has no union. Tech is full of rugged individuals.
Good moment to join a union by yourself (and/or a socialist org like the PSL) and ask or directly organize yourself together with such orgs!
Ysk, this isn’t a general strike. It’s a protest, at best.
It’s not a general strike if it doesn’t come from the Generél region of France. Otherwise it’s just sparkling absenteeism.
Obviously its both
A general strike is much longer.
Do you have a copy of the rule book by chance?
“The largest general strike that ever stopped the economy of an advanced industrial country—and the first general wildcat strike in history—was May 1968 in France.[105] The prolonged strike involved eleven million workers for two weeks in a row,[105] and its impact was such that it almost caused the collapse of the de Gaulle government.”
This entire wiki article is a list of HUGE events in history that were affected by general strikes and what was involved in organizing and challenging them.
A one-day protest is fine, but it’s not a “general strike.”
With the amount of indoctrination that has happened in the US, it makes sense that most don’t know how to adequately protest or strike.
At this point in time, it finally appears people are slowly understanding protests as a means to signify discontent. However, the line remains blury as to what is a protest and what is a strike.
A general strike should leave a long lasting mark resulting from halting of the economy - but a single day will only reinforce the fact that strikes which are effectively just protests aren’t going to work.
General strikes aren’t things you can use your PTO for to get a three-day weekend. That’s like protesting a brand by buying their product and then destroying it.
Thank you for this. Sucks the local chapters are primarily organized on discord. Seems pretty risky that they could all be shut down in one fell swoop.
I don’t think it’s a good idea to put any of your information in a “protest” form…
Should also add to not use any social media platforms at all too.
I’ll check here to see if everyone is off…
I own my own very very very small business (its me, my wife, my sister-in-law and a friend in another state) - what’s the consensus on what we should be doing for things like this? Do I strike myself?
ignore webadict. since the strike is for 🇺🇲gov, do not do business with them, or contractors working with the government. You can continue your business with comrades involved in the strike.
if when you can donate, do so.
We donate a lot of what extra we can to supporting causes thanks for the reply comrade!
The government does not operate in a vacuum. Corporations and their owners support these policies and actions, which is why economic boycotts are part of the strike.
You close down for the day and don’t buy anything. It’s quite clearly spelled out: No work. No school. No shopping.
Any other questions?
Simple yes would have sufficed.
Your business does not create money from nowhere. You buy things, and you sell things. You are part of a bigger economy, and you are striking that.
That’s fair just seems like your anger is misdirected at people who want to help. Most info is framed for W9s. I felt I was asking a legitimate question.
I suppose the any other questions bit was unnecessary, but I was trying to point out that it was listed in the post in a rather humorous way. I apologize because it does sound a bit snarkier than intended. Sorry.
No worries I do appreciate the response
Finally it’s on a day I actually don’t have to be at work. I can do this one.
…do you not know how strikes work?
The reality for most people is that they can’t afford a strike. Rent, food, gas are all blockers. Criticizing those who can’t strike and aren’t scabs will only hurt your movement and cause people to just not want to help.
then join a union! they can supplement your pay when on strike.
I’m in a union (SEIU) and they are definitely not going to supplement my pay. Also- I do caregiving. I don’t know how it works to strike when my client would die if no one showed up. Work without clocking in? That seems counter productive…
medical fields usually have some sort of clause that prevents complete strike, like the postal service. you can still strike but in that case it’s without union authorisation.
here the metalworker’s union is paying striking workers at tesla 125% of their regular salary and have the funds to continue doing that for about 200 years.
The vast majority of Americans don’t have that option.
why not?
Because most places in the USA have atrocious worker protection laws. Even if you’re in a name brand, corporate job with thousands of people on board with unionizing, they can close your office or fire everyone with no repercussions.
Just look at Blizzard, Google, Starbucks, etc… They take a chainsaw to any union talk and have never been bothered with consequences. If you’re employed by a tiny, family owned business you have even less leverage. Your personal relationship to the owner is much more important to achieving your goals than paperwork solidarity with the 2 other employees.
but i mean… the entire reason unions work is because of a mandate from the masses. if they close an office the only reasonable counter-action is for every other office to unionise too.
Because of a lack of said unions
from what i hear there are unions everywhere in the us. why are they not doing anything?
It’s not that simple unfortunately. Sure there are national unions, but they’re very specific in the industries they operate it. They are long standing institutions with the influence and funding to boot, your local tenant union or random coffee shop “union” does not have the resources or influence to make any of that happen. I knew some people in FL who tried to unionize their coffee shop they worked for and the owners just straight up shut the business down instead of capitulating, they were all out of a job after that.
i mean national unions exist to strengthen the local chapters.
The reality for most people is if we went on strike we would be the only one at our job to do it and we would be reprimanded or fired.
We all live paycheck to paycheck and if we miss a day of work then we don’t get paid and we can’t pay our bills and we die.
One day “general strike”, or as we in Germany call it: “Regular Sunday”
The winter storm that pushed people inside for 2 days has more impact than a single day purchase blackout.
If a country can shrug of massive storms and fires… I just don’t know what message this is actually supposed to send.
We seem to want instant gratification to work in the real world, we want a lack of suffering and to make it as quick and easy as possible.If you have an addiction you don’t lose it in a day. In Shawshank redemption, Andy Dufresne doesnt get to leave out the front door, he has to crawl through a river of shit to come out clean the other side.
We have a river of shit to wade through, I think we need to come to terms with that.Yea I’m the same. I don’t understand how people think this is effective over other methods. There are just so many more options and awareness for spreading a message now. Protesting this way was born out of a time when we didn’t even have telephones. Information was entirely different. Plus with authoritarians controlling narratives, they can really control a lot of public opinion so methods need to be implemented to counter that. Just an example, I see people projecting images within cities. That’s amazing, why not organize that. Every city, projections of police executing Alex and abusing their authority. They’ll take one down but have 20 more at the ready to project it again. If we’re getting hundreds of millions in the streets, there’s got to be something else we can do than just stand around for a few hours.
