This is what happens when a country that was part of the axis and commited many atrocities gets no consequences for it.
Germany was split up, the eastern axis were screwed by becoming part of the soviet block, japan got demilitarised and controlled by the US.
Not really. The far right is winning across the West right now. Countries which were not facists like the US, UK and France have very strong far right movements as well as countries which got occupied like Germany, Hungary, Romania and Slovakia, which had fascists governments.
Fascisim is a problem of capitalism collapsing. Capitalism naturally moves money from the poor to the rich. So governments need to fight that. So low growth should naturally lead to the left gaining ground, as they want to do exactly that. However the capitalist fight it and they need to find an alternative enemy, hence fascism.
I watched The Fall of Civilizations podcast a few months ago on the Mongols and Genghis Kahn.
Genghis Kahn, realized, once he united the the Mongol people, he wouldn’t be able to hold them united without an enemy. He realized he needed an enemy and began the conquest.
I just wish for once the “enemy” could be an abstract, like hunger and poverty instead of our fellow man. Just once.
Capitalism naturally moves money from the poor to the rich. So governments need to fight that. So low growth should naturally lead to the left gaining ground, as they want to do exactly that. However the capitalist fight it and they need to find an alternative enemy, hence fascism.
that’s part of the problem but not everything.
You’re underestimating the number of people who look at the mainstream culture from 2000-2020 and say “hey, they’re trying to take our way of life away, trying to replace us with immigrants, trying to declare our way of life criminal and illegal”. That causes a huge backlash.
But yeah, economic questions are also very important. Naturally, the left should become pretty strong around now by campaigning on taxing the rich and implementing a universal basic income. It’s very sad and unfortunate that the left don’t get their shit together and effectively campaign on these issues.
So low growth should naturally lead to the left gaining ground
Wrong, the extreme-right trick of blaming a scapegoat for all their problems, “the jews” pre-WW2 and “immigrants” now works.
An easy target, the rich and industrial forces pulling the strings behind the curtain are much less visible.
And yet AfD is almost leading in the polls Germany, AUR is leading by far in Romania, Hungary has Orban and Slovakia has Fico. They never learn. Or rather they always forget.
US controlled Italy as well. In Italy there was essentially a civil war, which is how fascism got defeated, with the resistance cooperating with the Allies, and a government and constitution being established as a result.
The problem with Italy is not about punishment, is cultural. Italy never collectively reflected and moved on from the fascist past. Maybe there is some good discussion about the relationship between this and being a catholic country.
I was reading, lightly reading, some book I found on the archive from 1971 that was attempting to discuss Italy just post the black plague. It read they loved fudalism/fascism in those years.
These problems are ancient, just with new ways of implementation. Not claiming to know a lot about it
Half the country supported fascism, either directly or through inaction, what do you do…? Demilitarization would be of no help here, so what are the options?
It is a cultural process that needs to cause a collective reflection to move on. What “punishment” would have worked in your opinion?
This would have not have changed anything in terms of not being reconciled with and have elaborated the fascist past.
You would have had exactly the same situation today, just with different borders.
“Germany was split up” indeed.
The western side had no consequences for it, on the contrary, they rehabilitated the nazis and kept them in positions of power.
On the Soviet side they got their deserved reward. What you call ‘screwed’?
Japan still had a lot of fascists and extreme-right to this day, even leading the country.
They were booming and becoming a world power, the reason why the US wanted war with them.
I wouldn’t call getting nuked, having to rebuild their infrastructure and economy from zero , and now as a vasal state to the US “had it alright” either.
I’ve keep seeing folks in here say the evil weren’t held accountable before, and so this must be why it repeats.
I think even if every soul who perpetrated this evil, was uh, held accountable, I wonder, if these problems would still arise again, I don’t think it would have made a difference, I think it will repeat. Power over others is a hell of a drug
I am not talking about every soul, I am talking about the top ranking military Nazi officers directly responsible for the Holocaust and many other war crimes.
You want to hear something funny? The countries most supportive of the genocide in Gaza are the ones which employed the majority of Nazi officers after the Holocaust.
This is what happens when a country that was part of the axis and commited many atrocities gets no consequences for it. Germany was split up, the eastern axis were screwed by becoming part of the soviet block, japan got demilitarised and controlled by the US.
BUT Italy just got to get off almost scoff free.
Not really. The far right is winning across the West right now. Countries which were not facists like the US, UK and France have very strong far right movements as well as countries which got occupied like Germany, Hungary, Romania and Slovakia, which had fascists governments.
Fascisim is a problem of capitalism collapsing. Capitalism naturally moves money from the poor to the rich. So governments need to fight that. So low growth should naturally lead to the left gaining ground, as they want to do exactly that. However the capitalist fight it and they need to find an alternative enemy, hence fascism.
I watched The Fall of Civilizations podcast a few months ago on the Mongols and Genghis Kahn.
Genghis Kahn, realized, once he united the the Mongol people, he wouldn’t be able to hold them united without an enemy. He realized he needed an enemy and began the conquest.
I just wish for once the “enemy” could be an abstract, like hunger and poverty instead of our fellow man. Just once.
(outer) “space” is considered the final frontier
that’s part of the problem but not everything.
You’re underestimating the number of people who look at the mainstream culture from 2000-2020 and say “hey, they’re trying to take our way of life away, trying to replace us with immigrants, trying to declare our way of life criminal and illegal”. That causes a huge backlash.
But yeah, economic questions are also very important. Naturally, the left should become pretty strong around now by campaigning on taxing the rich and implementing a universal basic income. It’s very sad and unfortunate that the left don’t get their shit together and effectively campaign on these issues.
Wrong, the extreme-right trick of blaming a scapegoat for all their problems, “the jews” pre-WW2 and “immigrants” now works.
An easy target, the rich and industrial forces pulling the strings behind the curtain are much less visible.
Yes but support for fascism and similar ideas has been stronger in Italy for much longer.
Lmao, you should search how many Japanese was punished by their crimes in Nanking massacre, the Japanese fascists are still in power
USA did absolutely nothing about that
And yet AfD is almost leading in the polls Germany, AUR is leading by far in Romania, Hungary has Orban and Slovakia has Fico. They never learn. Or rather they always forget.
Yes but these have risen in recent years and were on the fringes before. Italy is a different story.
US controlled Italy as well. In Italy there was essentially a civil war, which is how fascism got defeated, with the resistance cooperating with the Allies, and a government and constitution being established as a result.
The problem with Italy is not about punishment, is cultural. Italy never collectively reflected and moved on from the fascist past. Maybe there is some good discussion about the relationship between this and being a catholic country.
I was reading, lightly reading, some book I found on the archive from 1971 that was attempting to discuss Italy just post the black plague. It read they loved fudalism/fascism in those years.
These problems are ancient, just with new ways of implementation. Not claiming to know a lot about it
I know what happened with the civil war and that.
I still believe fascism has not been moved past precisely because rhey suffered no consequences for being fascist.
It could be argued that the same is true of the American civil war.
Half the country supported fascism, either directly or through inaction, what do you do…? Demilitarization would be of no help here, so what are the options? It is a cultural process that needs to cause a collective reflection to move on. What “punishment” would have worked in your opinion?
Something like germany and austria. Lose any territories with significant amount of other nationalities like the east of germany going to Poland.
They could have lost south Tyrol and they should have lost Trieste.
This would have not have changed anything in terms of not being reconciled with and have elaborated the fascist past. You would have had exactly the same situation today, just with different borders.
“Germany was split up” indeed.
The western side had no consequences for it, on the contrary, they rehabilitated the nazis and kept them in positions of power.
On the Soviet side they got their deserved reward. What you call ‘screwed’? Japan still had a lot of fascists and extreme-right to this day, even leading the country.
By the eastern axis I meant Hungary Romania and Bulgaria. Japan got nuked but had it alright after since it was under the US.
They were booming and becoming a world power, the reason why the US wanted war with them.
I wouldn’t call getting nuked, having to rebuild their infrastructure and economy from zero , and now as a vasal state to the US “had it alright” either.
Alright was maybe an overstatement. Definitely way better than having to be under the USSR umbrella.
no
I am not sure if you include that in “split up” but Germany lost a lot of (pre-war) territory.
I do. Italy lost barely any territory. Not counting colonies in this.
Lot of German top Nazis got promoted to high ranking positions in West-Germany too.
Nuremberg was a sham trial.
I’ve keep seeing folks in here say the evil weren’t held accountable before, and so this must be why it repeats.
I think even if every soul who perpetrated this evil, was uh, held accountable, I wonder, if these problems would still arise again, I don’t think it would have made a difference, I think it will repeat. Power over others is a hell of a drug
I am not talking about every soul, I am talking about the top ranking military Nazi officers directly responsible for the Holocaust and many other war crimes.
You want to hear something funny? The countries most supportive of the genocide in Gaza are the ones which employed the majority of Nazi officers after the Holocaust.