Religion, as in faith in God, doesn’t oppress anyone. Religion, the institution, oppresses people. If astrology had a comparable institution, it would absolutely oppress people.
This is an area where terminology gets real fuzzy. “Spiritual” is inherently vague and individualistic. I’m referring more to personal faith in a particular sect: read specific texts, pray in a particular way, organize your metaphysical model in line with an established religious tradition.
Generally I don’t like to reference specific religious texts, my beliefs are much too syncretic for that, but I was raised Christian, and for all the faults of the various Christian institutions, Jesus himself seems pretty based:
And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.
But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
If someone practices Christian dogma that way, I’d be hesitant to call them oppressed or an oppressor. It’s still definitely a specific religion, but it’s engagement with the emergent power structure that causes the oppression.
Faith oppresses the believer himself because it requires a willingness to believe in things without proof. It’s like saying AIDS doesn’t kill people because it merely weakens their immune system. Astrology believers are primed to believe anything, and often get scammed by their astrologers.
It’s like saying AIDS doesn’t kill people because it merely weakens their immune system.
Which is accurate. It’s the infection or cancer that kills you, like the priest or the astrologer oppresses you. The belief might make you more susceptible to oppression, but it’s not what’s oppressing you.
They don’t understand what I’m saying. Oppression is a specific phenomenon. Becoming susceptible to oppression is not the same thing as being oppressed.
“Which is accurate. It’s the infection or cancer that kills you.” That’s you. That’s what you said.
It’s like you’d disagree that being a tight rope walker could lead to a higher risk of plumeting to ones’ death, yet you’re so preoccupied with being correct that you refuse to acknowledge the reality of the situation… sad.
“Which is accurate. It’s the infection or cancer that kills you.” That’s you. That’s what you said.
Yes. I said that AIDS itself doesn’t kill you. In fact these days it’s much more manageable with modern treatment. I never said it didn’t raise your risk of dying from something else, obviously, that’s the main thing it does.
It’s like you’d disagree that being a tight rope walker could lead to a higher risk of plumeting to ones’ death
I’d say that tight rope walking doesn’t kill you. I used to go to the rock climbing gym all the time, and there was a slack line there constantly being used and I never saw anyone die on it. Tight rope walking isn’t all that dangerous, any more than any other moderate athletic act. Tight rope walking 50 feet above the ground is dangerous, but I’d also argue that being on a tight rope 50 feet above the ground is drastically safer than being in the exact same point in space minus the tight rope.
Because that’s exactly what this AIDS analogy is ignoring. Yeah, it can easily make an easily oppressed person more materially oppressed if it leads them into the influence of religious oppressors. But it can also be a source of fortitude and resilience against those very oppressors. Martin Luther is a fantastic example, his devotion gave him the resolve to call out the Catholic Church for its oppressive bullshit.
Rubes are gonna be rubes. If it’s not a religious institution, it’ll be an MLM or an NFT grift or a political party or something. Religion, the faith, isn’t oppressing anyone any more than franchise owners or cyber security nerds or political activists. That is the reality of the situation.
Religion, as in faith in God, doesn’t oppress anyone. Religion, the institution, oppresses people. If astrology had a comparable institution, it would absolutely oppress people.
Faith in good doesn’t need organized religion. That’s just being spiritual.
This is an area where terminology gets real fuzzy. “Spiritual” is inherently vague and individualistic. I’m referring more to personal faith in a particular sect: read specific texts, pray in a particular way, organize your metaphysical model in line with an established religious tradition.
Generally I don’t like to reference specific religious texts, my beliefs are much too syncretic for that, but I was raised Christian, and for all the faults of the various Christian institutions, Jesus himself seems pretty based:
If someone practices Christian dogma that way, I’d be hesitant to call them oppressed or an oppressor. It’s still definitely a specific religion, but it’s engagement with the emergent power structure that causes the oppression.
Faith oppresses the believer himself because it requires a willingness to believe in things without proof. It’s like saying AIDS doesn’t kill people because it merely weakens their immune system. Astrology believers are primed to believe anything, and often get scammed by their astrologers.
Which is accurate. It’s the infection or cancer that kills you, like the priest or the astrologer oppresses you. The belief might make you more susceptible to oppression, but it’s not what’s oppressing you.
So you don’t understand what he’s saying… interesting.
They don’t understand what I’m saying. Oppression is a specific phenomenon. Becoming susceptible to oppression is not the same thing as being oppressed.
No one is saying aids isn’t deadly/dangerous here except you.
I never said it wasn’t dangerous.
“Which is accurate. It’s the infection or cancer that kills you.” That’s you. That’s what you said.
It’s like you’d disagree that being a tight rope walker could lead to a higher risk of plumeting to ones’ death, yet you’re so preoccupied with being correct that you refuse to acknowledge the reality of the situation… sad.
Yes. I said that AIDS itself doesn’t kill you. In fact these days it’s much more manageable with modern treatment. I never said it didn’t raise your risk of dying from something else, obviously, that’s the main thing it does.
I’d say that tight rope walking doesn’t kill you. I used to go to the rock climbing gym all the time, and there was a slack line there constantly being used and I never saw anyone die on it. Tight rope walking isn’t all that dangerous, any more than any other moderate athletic act. Tight rope walking 50 feet above the ground is dangerous, but I’d also argue that being on a tight rope 50 feet above the ground is drastically safer than being in the exact same point in space minus the tight rope.
Because that’s exactly what this AIDS analogy is ignoring. Yeah, it can easily make an easily oppressed person more materially oppressed if it leads them into the influence of religious oppressors. But it can also be a source of fortitude and resilience against those very oppressors. Martin Luther is a fantastic example, his devotion gave him the resolve to call out the Catholic Church for its oppressive bullshit.
Rubes are gonna be rubes. If it’s not a religious institution, it’ll be an MLM or an NFT grift or a political party or something. Religion, the faith, isn’t oppressing anyone any more than franchise owners or cyber security nerds or political activists. That is the reality of the situation.