- cross-posted to:
- hardware@lemmy.world
- aboringdystopia@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- hardware@lemmy.world
- aboringdystopia@lemmy.world
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Relatedly, Hisense also forces updates and disables use of the TV if you do not accept the update (via a full screen non-cancelable prompt).
I learned this the hard way after Hisense broke my TV via an update that I didn’t want and then refused to fix it even after 6 months of escalations and emails.
They’re not alone, either. I had to downgrade my Visio just to use the features that it shipped with. I’m sure this is illegal, but no one cares unless you’re rich.
I outright told them it’s illegal, since they are unilaterally altering the terms of any T&C agreements when we started using the TV and materially interfering with our ownership and use of the TV we purchased. They didn’t care. I then sent it to our state attorney general and nothing happened.
You can likely sue them in small claims court. Many states let you file for a couple hundred dollars and will give you 3x damages if you win.
The most likely outcome is they settle when the court date approaches or dont show and you win hy default.
There was a guy in Texas who thought a big tobacco company would settle out without showing, but instead he got counter sued to the tune of millions. That man? Rusty Shackleford.
There’s a good documentary about it.
I know they’re different manufacturers, but TCL tried this shit and I just factory reset and never setup the Internet on it. I use an android TV box for the smarts.
Unfortunately the firmware was the issue, not just OS software. So factory-resetting didn’t help us. But yeah, that definitely radicalized me to the “never connect it to the internet” camp for future TVs.
Buying the TV and then not connecting it still rewards the bad behavior.
We have to boycott these fucks and lobby to get the behavior outlawed.
Getting the ad-subsidized tech without the ads sounds like a win to me
You are paying for features you don’t use (such as Internet access). That’s not a win.
They’re saying the company may be selling the device for less than the cost to produce it expecting the low price to draw in consumers while their predatory ads rake in much more money, so buying it and never connecting it means they took a loss. I’m skeptical that companies would do that these days. More likely they overcharge for the physical hardware AND have predatory ad software, you know to maximize shareholder value.
Even if that were true, you’re still paying more than you would be for a “dumb” TV that doesn’t have those features. So everybody loses but the company selling the hardware still sees a sale. They lose a lot more if they pay the cost to produce and then never sell the device.
I got a TCL last year and it wouldn’t let me use the TV until I set up the internet. After 4 factory resets I figured out how to put it in store demo mode, and plugged in a separate streaming device that connects to the internet. Now I realize I could have connected the TV to the internet and then blocked it at the network level.
Their Google TV models have a basic mode which lets you use it without internet with no bypassing.
As do the Roku TCL models. I currently have mine disconnected and plan to keep it that way.
If you are using a network level block, make sure it’s a black hole and not just a DNS filter. I tried a DNS filter with a Roku and found that they bypass it with hardcoded values, even when the DNS server was statically assigned and DHCP assigned.
What you mean by black hole and filter? I blocked a bunch of tcl domains on my pihole and made my router drop everything in port 53 coming from every other device that wasn’t pihole. It seems to have worked for now… Is that a good solution?
Pi-hole blocks the name resolution. TV wants to go to Hisense.com, asks your Pi-hole where that site is. Your Pi-hole sees that Hisense is on a block list, so it says back to your TV “sorry, no idea how to get to that site, it must be offline.”
If the manufacturer wants to get around this, they program a public DNS in, like 8.8.8.8, or they hardcode the static IP for their website into the TV. Now when it wants to go to Hisense, it never has to ask your Pi-Hole where that site is, and it doesn’t get blocked. Heck, it probably won’t even show up on your Pi-hole’s logs.
If you black hole the site, then any traffic going out there gets dropped, and the hard-coded addresses on the TV don’t matter for shit.
Cool! Thanks!
Yep, same issue with Firestick here.
Wait till they start paying netflix to relay data for them :)
I did the same thing, their bullshit ad infested updates were the final straw,
Unfortunately manufacturers are starting to get wise to this as well. I recently bought a new Vizio smart TV with no intentions of connecting it to the internet and during the initial setup it kept very persistently insisting that it needed to be connected and after setup it constantly bitches at me that it’s not connected.
Chargeback?
Would have loved to. It was just over one year (right after the warranty ended as well), though.
Is that your card issuer’s policy? I’ve done a chargeback past a year.
I am trying to recall, I think I did look and it was past the time period. I should have tried. It’s +2 years now, though.
My mom has a Hisense TV (because my parents invariably buy the very cheapest they can. They’d get a B&W if they could), and it just started something new - on start up, it now shows a static page of color wash, then you choose a channel. It doesn’t start on the same channel you turned off last night. Must be a new update came through. She let it sit on the screensaver all day, because it never occurred to her to try to change the channel.
Not a big deal, but weird, and NOBODY asked for this.
Was gonna say, LG does the same thing.
So far my only TV that hasn’t forced things in an absurd way has been my Sony… Guess what Sony just did? (Sold their Bravia TV line to TCL…)
I’ve never connected my LG TVs to the internet and they work pretty well.
I hear you can jailbreak them, which is appealing to me.
No shit? I might have to try that, only problem is my spouse will kill me if I break it… (primary TV)…
This future fucking sucks
This is the cyberpunk future that the 80s kids were so hyped for.
If anyone remembers the cyberpunk 80s TV show Max Headroom, then they know that TV was everywhere all the time in that universe. There was a scene in one episode where the police enter a suspect’s home and discover that she had an off switch on her TV. The cops react in shock to the fact, and one of them says “She’ll get twenty years for that.”
This universe also had “blipverts” which were a type of ad (advert…advertisement) that directly accessed your brain’s motivation to get you to buy something. The only problem was that blipverts also had a high chance of killing the people that watched it.
This was a TV show from almost 40 years ago now and it looks like these would be the things that are coming in the next few years from now.
Sci-Fi dystopia/Cyberpunk has called a lot of things correctly.
Rather, rich people are copying dystopias
The torment nexus is very profitable.
As a 80s kid I don’t recall being hyped. If anything all sci-fi books were warnings for us. Younger generations embraced the black mirror shit thought.
Somewhere between Snow Crash and Hackers it became the dream instead of the nightmare.
True for hackers… Somehow it started my career… but snow crash feels a bit like Uber-gig which isn’t what I would look forward to.
I have a HiSense TV and use ADB AppControl to disable/remove the telemetry or forced updates, and Projectivy Launcher to get a home screen/launcher that doesn’t show ads. Both are free and work really well. I don’t see trash on my homescreen anymore.
Good call!
I’d also like to share another option for folks: Flauncher. I’ve been using it for a few years - it’s very clean and lightweight.
You can set it as the default using ADB commands, or install it directly from the Play Store and use adhoc.
https://gitlab.com/flauncher/flauncher
Paired with a button remapper and set as default, I honestly haven’t seen the stock Android interface in years. (Like you, I’ve also used ADB to disable telemetry etc on TV, and replaced google play with Fdroid and Aurora)
PS: For the uninitiated, these are also worth installing:
https://smarttubeapp.github.io/
Gives you ad-free YouTube and then some.
https://f-droid.org/packages/org.courville.nova/
Lets you connect a hard drive to your router and create your own local media streaming frontend ala Netflix (or plug your hard drive / USB stick directly into your TV; it doesn’t care).
While it lacks some of the polish, it’s simpler than Jellyfin or Plex.
Until sept 2026…
Do you really think Google will approve those APKs once they have fully lockdown android (that includes Google TV)?
That’s why this push from google to kill the APK installation without their blessing infuriates me!
yeah, we’ll be working on grapheneOS tv boxes in a years time.
I will 100% jump over to it if that does turn into a thing
HDMI + A presentation mouse and bluetooth keyboard on an old Pixel?
OMG me too!
Well, in fairness, Flauncher and Nova launcher are on the play store. Irrespective, there are ways to install things now and then harden against google, such as blocking MAC address, Pinhole, disabling updates etc.
Alternatively, an android dongle (like Onn) is an option, however I would advise against Amazon Fire sticks and the like (telemetry, locked down)
Alternatively, make your own. A Raspberry Pi CM4 TV Stick that plugs into HDMI is one known option. If Andorid (and ASOP) become as locked down as you fear, there will be other options - Kodi, LineageOS TV etc.
If Android wants to shit the bed, no problem. It’s not the only game in town.
Oh cool, I’ll have to checkout those other tools!
Well, I was mostly piggy backing on your comment / signal boosting what you were saying for the cheap seats. I figure anyone who’s hacking their TV via ADB commands doesn’t need my help with work arounds.
But heck, if and of those are of use, please enjoy.
I’m tempted to mentioned a good “yarr me harties” source here too, but I don’t want to teach anyone how to suck lemons.
I basically left it vanilla after switching the launcher and borking the updates. We use emby for our home streaming but I am always looking for extra functionality
Stremio is also an option.
I don’t have an Android tv but if that day ever comes, very glad options like these exist.
That’s great, but people who don’t already own one shouldn’t support this garbage company.
Okay, so strike Hisense products from the list of brand I’ll ever buy from
The list is getting pretty big.
This is why, for years, I’ve been trying to point out that “if you don’t like it, just don’t buy it” isn’t good enough. Boycotts aren’t enough; we have to force the law to change to prohibit the abusive corporate behavior.
At this rate it is easier to do a whitelist than a blacklist
I got a Hisense tv in November and never connected it to the internet. Now I am extremely pleased that I never connected it.
IF YOU BUY ANY TV, DO NOT CONNECT IT TO THE INTERNET.
Televisions were never meant to be smart devices. There’s no reason your screen should have software of its own. That would be like your face having a mind of its own.
Ummm, <eldrich horror rant text>
Cell modems are getting cheaper and cheaper, it’s only a matter of time before cheap smart TVs will flood the market with always-on telemetry and intrusive personalized ads.
Well then I guess I make the room a giant faraday cage.
That sounds like a great reason to return it and buy used lol
I haven’t experience this myself but I’ve read that some newer TV’s are forcing you to connect to the internet before you can do anything else.
Not to mention it seems like the apps on a smart tv get ignored when it comes to updates.
My face’s mind sits right behind my face.
What could have go wrong by connecting a screen to internet!?
Humanity.
Anyone has a list of TV manufacturers that don’t suck yet?
Personally, I use computer monitors. They’re cheap enough. 32 inch ultra wide. 36 inch. They’re only getting larger and cheaper.
As for remote control, I hook it up to the computer and use unified remote.
At this point I consume most media literally on my computer or my phone, but I still want there to be a good solution for a big living room TV (50"+ range). I have yet to see any reasonable ‘computer monitor’ option for that.
The other problem with using a monitor as a TV, BTW, is that they often don’t have built-in speakers.
It seems like a lot of the bigger names suck. I bought a Blauerpunkt and it is awful - not hackability wise but as a product. Probably for the same reasons as Nokia, Phillips, JVC etc are pale shadows of themselves (sold off / rebagged)
I have a Blauerpunkt, a TCL and a Samsung. Of the three, it’s the TCL that’s been the least locked down.
At this rate, I’m probably going to go for a short throw projector or just get an old school plasma if /when these go tits up.
I’ve got a Sony and even it’s showing home screen ads - normally it’s just “suggestions” for shows on streaming services I don’t have, but the occasional car ad also comes through. I have a theory that the reason Sony are getting out of the TV business is that they don’t want to develop their own TV OS and they’re sick of their customers complaining about the ads in Google’s OS.
I’m about to get a 2nd one and I’m seriously considering a computer monitor hooked up to a mini PC running XBMC or something.
I used to recommend Sceptre, but even they appear to have stopped making dumb TVs now too.
I haven’t had a Tv in years but because I wanna be cool or some shit but I don’t want to have one of these intrusive machines in the middle of my house. I already have enough of those.
Anybody have un-enshittified 4k tv recommendations?
Mainly want good picture quality for movies + high refresh rate for games.
The biggest thing you can do is just never connect it to the internet. I even block the MAC addresses so ever if someone tried to connect it, it won’t. Then use an external box like a Roku, PC, or AppleTV to connect to your content.
And, if any TV requires an internet connection to set it up, immediately return it.
Exactly this.
“Smart” TVs never go online, never connect to anything but power and an HDMI, and quite frankly…if it didnt risk causing warranty headaches, I’d open teh fucker up and unplug its wifi antenna too.
Always use an old PC/Laptop/Raspberry Pi/whatever to get them online/on youtube/streaming/etc. You have full control over those devices, and can update them as desired and modify them at a whim.
Fuckin hate smart TVs. a bunch of fucking spyware and adware that just makes the device run hotter and die sooner.
We’re gonna need this “requires Internet connection” bit to be in reviews.
LG is solid as long as you don’t agree to the terms. I get no ads but I only use the internet on it to update the firmware. Samsung is more annoying with their ads.
I only use the internet on it to update the firmware.
You don’t even need to do that. I download firmware updates from the LG website, throw it on a USB drive, and plug that into the TV. Actually important firmware updates are so rare that I’m fine with the extra effort required.
i dont have an LG, but I’ve only had to firmware update 1 TV in like… the past 13 years, and that was because it had a horrible issue with the image vertically splitting in half and green corruption across the bottom. Which makes you think hardware failure, but it wasnt, the firmware update 100% fixed it for the rest of its life.
So unless you are facing a major, catastrophic issue like that, I’d say fuck updates.
yeah, i don’t have any desire to update my TV as long as I can plug in HDMI and get a picture and sound
Exactly. If it’s displaying the line-in correctly, I don’t see what a firmware update would bring to the table.
It’s a display. Once it’s achieved being able to act like that, then you should be done for as long as the hardware lasts.
I bought an LG a little while back. Looks good, no need to connect it to the Internet, you can turn on and off all the features you do or don’t want.
Hell yeah. I was considering a C5, but saw people online saying ads are present on LG.
I use shield anyway, but I will probably just follow your advice and set default input to the shield
Mine doesn’t have ads. But like I said, I’ve never connected it to the Internet, so I don’t know if it would start showing them if I did. I just use a Chromecast, my Switch, or an antenna.
I have one connected to the internet due to WAF, but I never signed into an LG account on it. As a result, the “home” page just shows something about signing in “for the full experience” rather than any ads.
There are ads, but if you’re willing to slog through the settings you can get rid of them. I just used a pihole LG blocklist. I really enjoy using the magic mouse on the screen and I’m finding it hard to give up.
For now. That can change at any time with an update.
What update?
you can say that about literally any TV brand, this doesn’t help.
Well what about a PC monitor? You can get u to like 43" and beyond. Obviously they are great for gaming as well.
The other very impractical mention - after TVs starting adding ads, cameras and microphones, I switched to a 2nd hand projector. Most have no smart features.
All you need is a white or off- white wall to protect on to. And the ability to block some light coming into the room.
Downsides:
- They can be bulky and noisy. Particularly the 4k ones
- might need separate speakers
- Not as low latency as a tv but models do come with VRR
- bulbs do get darker from prolonged use (and aren’t always cheap to replace)
- you might need separate speakers
- and there are the trailing cables
- And you’ll never get the inky blacks of oleds. But for picture size and immersion for the cost, they are basically unbeatable.
Some can project from a coffee table.
For tv series and YouTube like content, I use a laptop. Then for big movies, I use the projector and 5.1 sound system (mostly 2nd hand as well.)
projectors are just not a practical recommendation for most people. unless you take pretty drastic measures to set up your room like a proper theater, the picture quality will be drastically worse than an average TV.
Indeed, that’s why I mentioned a PC monitor first
Just a heads up that the Smart virus is spreading to monitors, too. In a few years most monitors will be Smart.
My LG has been safe so far.
There are still non-“smart” monitors (as opposed to tvs), get one while you can. I would but too poor. My world’s full of 1080p trickle down :p
Would you consider an old plasma TV? They won’t be in 4K (I think they topped out at 1440p) but there are some real advantages to them (if you can tolerate the disadvantages).
Plasma burn-in is scary for games.
True… but that was greatly mitigated in later models.
I swear that the motion quality and the deep blacks rival high end OLEDs. Really, really good. So long as you can find a decent TV (like the one in the video).
The issue I have with them is - power draw and heat.
My brother in law had one, it was very pretty
Yeah I’m still using the last of the good Panasonic VT50 models. It’s still going strong with a great picture. We got it in 2009. It’s early smart features were retired long ago.
These articles make me shudder what I might replace it with
I have one in my room. It gets pretty hot with it and my PS3 running, and I live in Minnesota and sleep in the basement
What I hear you saying is you have great taste in consoles, a kick ass TV and a free space heater.
Lol yeah I suppose. Funny story how I got my PS3, I was on ebay and there was a “broken” one listed on ebay for a dollar. The seller said the blu-ray drive wasn’t working and replacing it didn’t help. That was a good day to be me, I tell ya
A Google TV. That have a “Basic TV” mode which lets you use it without internet.
I bought mine a few years ago, never connected to the internet, never had a problem.
Now I’m definitely never connecting it.
Damn. Just bought a Hisense fridge last week. I hope I won’t have to watch an ad before it lets me get the mayo.
I’m sorry Dave. I can’t let you do that.
Sending pics of your moldy leftovers to your crush if you don’t pay up
i don’t know why i didn’t expect hisense to do it.
I have a Hisense that I bought late last year and have never connected it to the internet (I stream everything through my PS5) and boyhowdy does that TV take every chance it gets to let me know I’m not connected lol
I would resort to violence, Holy shit.
Ohh it’s not wrongdoing and when we refuse to buy anything from them, they’re getting what they gave.
I reminds me I should start writing my clickbait “(Millennials/GenZ/GenA or whatever) are killing TV manufactureres” article
I’m genX, but now that you mention it, My kids refuse to watch anything not on a tablet or phone, so there’s that…
