- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
The measure was introduced by French conservative lawmaker Celine Imart, who argued it would prevent confusion with traditional meat products.
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I’m happy that EU doesn’t have any serious problems to worry about, than name of burgers.
Burger and sausage are just shapes food can be in. Wtaf?
NO11!1! A sausage has to be a ground animal stuffed into it’s own intestine!
Just like God intended!!1!
Maybe they should ban using the word “apple” for things made of metal and plastic.
Just call them regrub and egasuas, now with 0% horse meat or other sleazy mystery meats (true)
Since this is clearly such a non-issue (seriously, who buys a veggie burger thinking it’s actual meat?!) it’s just used for distraction from the more important issues the EU / world faces.
As a vegetarian, I support clear labeling of vegetarian products (so I don’t accidentally eat meat); I’d guess meat eaters would also support clear labeling, so they don’t accidentally eat veggie products.
That said, I would argue that references to sausage, hamburger, hot dog, chili, etc, refer more to the form of the product (shape, whether it’s in a wrapping, etc) than the actual specific contents. Just make a rule saying that plant-based “meat” have to be costly labeled as “plant-based” in type 1/3 the size of the form, and move on from this (non)issue.
The meat manufacturers are only getting their panties tied up because meat is becoming less popular and they want every edge they can get to try to hang on to their market.
Mostly because forcing them to change the wording means that their competitors have to go through the hoops of changing their packaging and potentially losing money on destroying packaging that has already been made (depending on how much of a heads up they get). It’s too just be a nuisance and to slow them down and potentially have less in stores for a little while so the traditional meat manufacturers can try and take back more space on the shelves.
100%. If the do anything, it’s because of money.
Yawn. What a waste of time.
That was whole point of it from the very beginning. Dairy and meat producing lobbyist rejoice at the idea of the EU getting bogged down over regulating their competition. I think it’s working out better than they have even dreamed it would.
I feel like switching to a 100% non-animal diet just out of protest.
A chemistry degree is required to understand the additives in the ingredient list, but ‘PLANT-BASED sausages/burgers/whatever’ are confusing. Whoever can’t figure that out shouldn’t be allowed to shop without supervision, in my opinion.
I feel like switching to a 100% non-animal diet just out of protest.
Doooooo iiiiiiit, join us! 💚
Don’t know about the place you’re living but in Germany the ingredient lists of most vegan convenience products don’t need much research to understand. Some examples:
1 cup (227 g)
Protein 60 g, Calories 553 kcal
- 54% seitan
- 26% wheat protein texturate
- sunflower oil
- onions
- soysauce
- yeast extract
- spices
- rocksalt
- riceflour
- carob bean gum
This products naming seems already proactively adjusted to the EU policy as it once was called “Schnitzel Cordon Bleu”
1 cup (227 g)
Calories 526 kcal, Protein 20 g
- Drinking water
- canola oil
- wheat flour
- soy protein
- wheat gluten
- starch
- oat straw fibers
- iodized table salt [table salt, potassium iodate (in very small amounts in iodized salt, it is considered safe and beneficial)]
- thickener: methylcellulose (natural fiber from plants), corn flour, natural flavoring, wheat starch, spirit vinegar, spices, sugar, herbs, potato protein, psyllium husks, tomato powder, yeast, table salt
- coloring foods: concentrates of radish, carrot
1 cup (227 g)
Calories 413 kcal, Protein 38 g
- water
- soyprotein
- canola oil
- rice- and beanflour
- beetroot concentrate
- yeast extract
- cultures (?!)
- cane sugar
- salt
- vitamin B12
1 cup (227 g)
Calories 560 kcal, Protein 65 g
- seitan 64%
- bell pepper
- coconut fat
- onions
- yeast extract
- spices
- rocksalt
- carob bean gum
- beech wood smoke
I wasn’t talking about (just) the ingredient list in plant based meat alternatives, but rather about food ingredients in general. Seems like I said it in a slightly confusing manner.
My point is: several food items that can be purchased list ingredients that are not easy to understand nor evaluate for a layperson. This is confusing. In contrast, “plant based” labled food is not difficult to understand, imo.
Some vegan alternatives like cheese might be flavoured, to make them taste a little more like the destructive product they try to replace. I don’t lose sleep over it, it’s a little cheating but not unhealthy. We should eat whole food plant based as much as possible as it’s healthy, cheap and fun. A vegan sausage is still WAY less harmful then it’s animal based alternative.
Yeah I mostly cook whole food but I just need those convenience meat replacements with my dinners. TVP, tofu- or seitan based burgers or sausages, chickpea-, lentil- and buckwheat-noodles and protein powders make it so much easier to get loads of protein than just lentils, peas and rice and keep me way more satiated. Oh sorry I called them burgers and sausages. I didn’t want to confuse the reader. I meant plant based protein sticks and circular shaped pellets ofc.
I don’t eat plant based cheese also I ate quite a lot of the real deal in the past. Maybe when I’m making Pizza or plant based circular shaped pellets within some buns but that’s very seldom. I just looked up what’s in violife and it’s got an equally short ingredient list:
Water, coconut oil (23%), modified starch, starch, sea salt, cheddar flavor, olive extract, colorings (paprika extract, beta-carotene), vitamin B12.
But yeah apart from the ominous cheddar flavor it seems very basic, too. Coconut oil should be consumed sparsely because it is “92% saturated fat and therefore raises cholesterol levels similar to animal fats (butter, lard). However, it contains a unique type of medium chain saturated fat called lauric acid that research shows raises HDL or ‘good’ cholesterol levels, which may lower overall heart disease risk.”
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Call it what you want for cope, still not buying dead animal
I use Arch, btw.
It’s about factual labelling, so people know what they’re eating. Not trying to get people to behave in a certain way.
So chicken salad shouldn’t be called salad?
It’s about the meat producing industry being threatened by alternatives.
If it’s facts you want, both burgers and (especially) sausages have always been able to contain literally anything
Your statement must be true because you linked some youtube channel.
So I believe his statement to be true, because you came up with that shoddy dismissal.
So setting some standards for them might be a good thing regardless.
Great! More dead cows for me!
And me!
I don’t understand how people could get confused?
Veggies/Vegans don’t often accidentally buy meat because they’re confused by the packaging
Does it just boil down to most being thick as (veggie) mince?
People aren’t confused. It’s the meat industry who feel threatened by plant based products as they rise in popularity, and the meat industry has a lot of power and influence. This is their sad move to fight against plant based alternatives.
Veggies/Vegans don’t often accidentally buy meat because they’re confused by the packaging
If the packaging were labeled “vegan”, quite a number of them would. And happily pay three times as much for it as regular customers.
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I bought lasagna at Picard, was no meat in it.
I didn’t expect that as lasagna is made with meat.
The sign that it was vegetarian was very dull and not very visible.
I really don’t understand why people think that’s okay, I mean capitalism trying to sell anything is a thing by deception (I hate that) but why call a pasta plate “lasagna” when it is missing a crucial ingredient?
I don’t really care but you must be joking if you don’t understand why people are annoyed by it.
The sign that it was vegetarian was very dull and not very visible.
Your story largely hinges on this subjective description. I’ve personally never seen a product that is a vegan/vegetarian alternative of something and does not center its whole branding/appearance around that.
I didn’t expect that as lasagna is made with meat.
Lasagna is a broad term for many a dish. You’re probably thinking of Lasagna al forno, made with Ragu alla bolognese, which normally contains minced beef. If it just says Lasagna it could be any kind of casserole with the typical pasta sheets called Lasagna.
I have. It’s become more common. I see the same for gluten free and vegan etc products.
I assume some good tasting products get avoided as people assume they are inferior due to alternative ingredients so they downplay it in the hope that their market share grows. Obviously, those looking for those products will be on the lookout for the label.
It’s capitalism, still. You get a product you didn’t want by deception that is legal.
Hot deal incoming! Gluten free water! Only 50€ the bottle! Limited offer buy now!
The thing is, people following health fads or fashionable food hypes often don’t think, so you can sell them the most mundane stuff for the most outrageous amounts of money with some clever labeling.
Fact is, meat is expensive and meatless products are cheaper to produce. You could very easily see a company making meatless versions of products just to increase margins, and then saying “it’s vegetarian” as a defence when confronted.
Clear labelling stops that and helps the consumer stay informed about what they are buying. Vegetarian products don’'t have their reputation dragged through the mud by deceptive companies. Everybody wins except those who try to deceive.
Clear labelling and vegetarian sausage not being allowed to be called “sausage” are two different things though.
The EU could easily introduce labelling requirements that indicate whether a product contains meat or not, and even what kind of meat if we wanted that. We could standardize that just like we standardized the Nutriscore label.
Edit: In fact, I’d love to be able to see at a glance whether a meat replacer is soy or mushroom based.
EU already has lots of protected terms on food. Certain food types can only use the protected term if they meet some criteria (e.g. minimum content level or location of manufacture). I expect this is just trying to use the existing legal mechanism by adding “sausage” and “burger” and nothing more sinister.
I think your ideas for labelling are all good though.
The issue I have with that though is that “sausage” and “burger” are extremely generic terms.
I don’t think it makes sense to protect them in the same way that we protect “brie” or something like that.There isn’t even one type of burger or sausage, as they can be made from any kind of meat (beef, chicken, pork, etc). We then differentiate by calling them a “chicken sauage” or a “pork sausage”. Why would “vegetarian/plant-based sausage” be any different?
I would just label it as: “Veggie-Product that looks like Burger” 😂
I responded to Tomtits who can’t understand how people can get confused.
You responded with the definition of lasagna…
Lasagna is not necessarily made with meat. Lasagna is a type of layered pasta dish with ingredients between the layers of pasta.
A vegetarian lasagna is equally a lasagna as one with minced beef in it.While I agree that deceptive marketing is an issue, the real issue here is the fact that it was not labelled clearly enough that it was a product without meat. The fact that the vegetarian option can be legally be labelled lasagna isn’t really the problem.
Similarly, in my opinion, sausage and burger are just a description of the shape the product comes in and what it can be used for.
A sausage or a burger is agnostic to what kind of ingredients go in it. There are beef sausages, pork sausages, chicken sausages,… and vegetarian sausages. A vegetarian sausage is still a sausage, because it comes in the shape of a sausage and you use it in the same way as you would a sausage. As long as it’s labelled clearly as vegetarian so that there is no confusion I do not see the issue with it being labelled a sausage.Worth noting that I do think this is a different issue from using the names of specific cuts of meat, which is what the discussion was about a few years ago. A steak refers to a specific cut from a cow, so a vegetarian steak is not a steak in my opinion, and should not be called a steak on the packaging.
It would appear that the reason why they are currently discussing a ban on using the term sausage and burger for vegetarian products, is not because calling a veggie sausage a sausage is something people have a serious problem with, but rather because the meat lobby wants to kill the meat replacer industry.
Cheese lasagna is totally a thing though. In fact, it’s a damn tasty thing. Hell, I eat probably more meat than I should, and I will absolutely choose cheese lasagna over meat lasagna at least half of the time. You just failed to read the packaging.
Veggie burgers and sausages are plainly labeled. If you can read, and you bother to do so, you really can’t accidentally end up with them. Though, some of them are mighty tasty. Maybe you should broaden your culinary experience a little. It’s easier if you take the stick out of your ass.
A proper lasagna has cheese and meat …
Tell that to my great aunt who came to the US from Italy in '53. Be ready to dodge the spoon talkin that nonsense.
Well, she’s gonna have to take that up with my Italian coworker who wholeheartedly agrees with my statement.
🤣
Alright, a slightly better anecdote!
I can go to almost any restaurant listing on just-eat and they will offer a dish named “Lasagna”. And it will be Lasagna Bolognese every single time. There are some more fancy restaurants that offer different kinds, but they will be described as such.
At least in central Europe, if you order Lasagna without any more specifications, you’ll get meat and cheese.
You’re the type of person giving vegetarians a bad reputation.
Well, as not at all a vegetarian, I’m alright with that, but damn if you don’t sound like you have all the palate of a 10 year old.
Edit: and you can’t fucking read.
I responded to Tomtits who didn’t understand how people can get confused lol.
I didn’t say you were a vegetarian, and I’m the one who cannot read 😂🤣
What an insult btw “u kannoh read!!” “U palate (did you just learn a new word? Bravo!) is bad!!”
Lol
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Fella, go back and look at the thread in context, replied to me or I would not have received a notification and replied to you.
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I cook better than you, and I’d wager that my vocabulary is as superior to yours as my cooking.
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Stating the truth is not making an insult.
🖕
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Lentil pasta.
Such a stupid thing to regulate.
vegetable burger shaped non-burger made out of vegetable and vegetable sausage shaped non-sausage made out of vegetable
I kind of hope this passes. Not because this is needed in anyway way, just for the outrage memes and content.
What outrage memes are you hoping for? About what? This is just plane dumb not madening dumb
Just come back to this comment section in a couple of hours (or check one of the older posts about this story). It’s good entertainment!
Also, planes aren’t dumb.
edit: See? It’s glorious!
Bet you were also hoping for a Trump win in 2016 FoR ThE LuLz
You’d have lost that bet.
I don’t believe you. All the outrage memes since then must have been hilarious to you.
These are exactly the comments I was waiting for. Comparing a mad man with fascist tendencies in charge of the world’s powerful military to … some companies having to reprint their labels. Surely if you support one, you must support the other, they are totally comparable!
Believe what you want, but if that is the logical connection you’re basing this on … you’re dumber than this proposed law.
