• IninewCrow@lemmy.ca
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    2 days ago

    As an Indigenous Canadian, I think the whole Avatar series is sickening

    An invading colonizing force of foreign people invading a native people … but the natives are incapable of helping themselves so they need a white saviour to lead them in the fight against their oppressors

    It’s basically cultural appropriation masked as a space opera

    The worst part of it is how wealthy European people are still able in the most imaginative ways possible are able to monetize the misery and memory of oppressed people. Not only did they destroy entire cultures, they spend a good part of their time making money off of that memory and history.

    The only thing I enjoy about the films is the AI, CGI and special effects … beyond that, the writing is just another continuation of white people fantasizing about what it would be like to be a heroic Indigenous person who wins over colonizers … a fantasy that has never been allowed to exist in reality.

    • Taleya@aussie.zone
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      18 hours ago

      There’s a reason it’s commonly known as “dances with smurfs”

      He thinks he’s worldbuilding. It’s fucking Propaganda

    • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      As opposed to the other Avatar, which explicitly features Inuit and mesoamerican cultures resisting literal fascist, genocidal regimes. And deconstructs the “chosen one” trope while they’re at it. And (as of now) uses culturally appropriate VAs.

      • argarath@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        Which avatar? The only one I can think of is the last air bender but I don’t know how they deconstruct the chosen one trope

        • otacon239@lemmy.world
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          2 days ago

          I would say one of the key points is that Aang gets constant support from everyone around him. Like any individual, he’s nearly powerless without that support. Most other “chosen one” stories I’ve seen, the character is saving everyone else.

        • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
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          2 days ago

          Sort of. Per TVTropes:

          He deconstructs the Kid Hero. Each Avatar is supposed to learn of their identity at the age of sixteen, which is the age of maturity in the World of Avatar. However, when the leaders of the Air Nomads sensed that a war was brewing, they made the decision to reveal Aang as the Avatar four years early so he could finish mastering his airbending and start mastering the other three elements to nip the threat in the bud. This decision might have made things even worse for everybody involved at the time because it forced a huge responsibility onto Aang that the 12-year-old wasn’t ready for, and alienated him from his pre-series friends who were themselves too young to know how to treat him post-revelation. After overhearing he was to be separated from Gyatso, his guardian and the only one left who treated Aang as the kid he was and as an actual person, he ran away, and then got trapped in a storm that forced the Avatar State to freeze Aang and Appa inside an iceberg for a hundred years in order to save both of their lives. He subsequently blamed himself for the genocide of his people and the subsequent century of war because he wasn’t there, even after he’s told he would’ve been too inexperienced to make a difference back then and that his running away then is probably the only reason there’s hope for the surviving world now. His childish personality and cheerfulness is sometimes an act to try avoiding the burdens placed on him which proves to be a problem several times when he has to face a problem head on to solve it (like learning Earth-bending or spending almost the whole series avoiding the problem his morals might conflict with what he’ll have to do to actually defeat the Big Bad).

          They were going somewhere with the pacifism too, though ran out of time.


          Korra straight up deconstructs it, which is more what I meant. She was born to fight, she basically never got to be a child/regular human, but being a ‘Chosen One’ doesn’t fix anything. She’s targeted and hated by the antagonists for being such a singular figure of authority, and beat up to a pulp over it.

    • Ilandar@lemmy.today
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      2 days ago

      I completely agree with you. Cameron always gets so triggered whenever he’s faced with this criticism as well, like all rich white American liberals. He doesn’t even try to hide these views because he’s so incredibly clueless:

      In an interview with The Guardian in 2010, Cameron said the Lakota Sioux Nation was a “hopeless” and “dead-end society”.

      The interview was prompted by Cameron’s visit to the Xingu tribe, located in the Amazon, who were fighting against the development of the Belo Monte hydroelectric dam.

      During his time there he witnessed cultural ceremonies.

      “I felt like I was 130 years back in time, watching what the Lakota Sioux might have been saying at a point when they were being pushed and they were being killed and they were being asked to displace,” he said.

      He noted that ‘this was the driving force’ in creating Avatar.

      “I couldn’t help but think that if [the Lakota Sioux] had had a time-window and they could see the future… and they could see their kids committing suicide at the highest suicide rate in the nation… because they were hopeless and they were a dead-end society – which is what is happening now – they would have fought a lot harder.” Source

      • TargaryenTKE@lemmy.world
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        11 hours ago

        Wow, that is a disgusting thing to say about ANY culture, especially one that you admit is facing its own issues. Also, comparing a tribe from the Amazon to one from the Great Plains is kinda like saying ‘Wow, those people suffering in Estonia really reminds me of the people suffering in Ethiopia’. Not my best analogy but you get my point

    • Jo Miran@lemmy.ml
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      2 days ago

      My favorite movie about an Indigenous person taking on an invading and/or colonizing force is Prey. No white savior there.

    • Jhuskindle@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      It’s a white saviour rehash. Classic movie trope in the USA and yes it is incredibly insulting.

    • shalafi@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      If the natives are outgunned and technologically outclassed, how are they to prevail without help from “the inside”? Otherwise it’s just a depressing plot about the natives getting overrun.

      the natives are incapable of helping themselves

      I’m having trouble thinking of a time when the natives were able to help themselves against colonizers. OTOH, guerilla warfare has worked pretty damned well in the last century.

      • DoPeopleLookHere@sh.itjust.works
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        2 days ago

        Why is “it’s realistic” the line your drawing on a space colonization movie?

        Your entire premise of “the natives are out gunned” is dripping with white colonization. Why are they always out gunned? Why not show them capable and holding their own and are helped out by “insiders”.

        Its a fantasy story, and there’s tons of ways to do it without relying on the racist “natives are primitives” narrative.

        • Sentient Loom@sh.itjust.works
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          2 days ago

          Why is “it’s realistic” the line your drawing on a space colonization movie?

          There have to be some kind of rules or else there’s no tension. It must be realistic within the rules of the story.

        • CannonFodder@lemmy.world
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          2 days ago

          Logically, any colonizer will only proceed if they out gun the natives. Otherwise it’s not colonization, but war. And even then in war, the attacker usually figures they have a significant advantage, or else they wouldn’t attack.

          • Nalivai@lemmy.world
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            23 hours ago

            As if colonisers are in possession of perfect knowledge and logic.
            Plenty of stories of wannabe colonisers eating shit because they underestimated natives, if the " historical realism" for some reason is important in a story about blue space aliens, draw inspiration from that why don’t you

            • CannonFodder@lemmy.world
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              17 hours ago

              Isn’t that pretty much how all fiction stories of these type actually play out? Much more than in reality, sadly.

          • DoPeopleLookHere@sh.itjust.works
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            1 day ago

            Its fantasy, what does logic have to do anything with it?

            Like it really comes across as “we can suspend reality, but so long as it’s still racist like us”

            • CannonFodder@lemmy.world
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              1 day ago

              Well sure. But even fantasy needs to have internal logic to some degree of it gets stupid. If some colonizer attempt came and attacked, and the natives just wiped them out with superior tech, not only would it be unbelievable, but it would be a boring story. We can have the natives eventually victorious and avoid the ‘white guy saviour’ trope which certainly sucks. But for a good storey, they have to be the underdogs.

              • DoPeopleLookHere@sh.itjust.works
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                1 day ago

                If you can’t tell a story without basing it off of racist stereotypes, maybe it’s a story that doesn’t need to be told…

                • CannonFodder@lemmy.world
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                  17 hours ago

                  Does it have to be racist? Societies progress in different directions, and when they collide it magnifies this. In the trope where white guys come is with bigger fire power, usually the natives win in the end based on spiritual superiority. Not a bad message really. And in fantasy, the ‘races’ are arbitrary. In avatar, if the corporation was all black people and the aliens looked very white, would it change the story?

      • grue@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        I’m having trouble thinking of a time when the natives were able to help themselves against colonizers.

        Well, there’s Ethiopia, and uh… it’s a pretty short list.

        (I’d also give an honorable mention to Haiti, although the oppressed people in that case were imported African slaves, not natives. By the time of the Haitian Revolution, the indigenous Taíno had long since been pretty much wiped out.)

        • idiomaddict@lemmy.world
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          2 days ago

          Isn’t any territorial war won by the attacked party an example? Like, the aggressors never start being successful colonizers because they don’t win, but they would have colonized the land if they’d won.

      • IninewCrow@lemmy.ca
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        2 days ago

        It reinforces the idea that the only way we can understand meeting any new culture or group is through conflict … that one or the other has to overpower one another and win … that everything is automatically a contest of winners and losers.

        We can’t imagine a world where we actually cooperate with one another and live in some kind of harmony. Partly because we as a species have seldom been like that and the other being that we find that story kind of boring. We prefer a world of constant conflict and fighting.

        We also enjoy cheering for the underdog and listening to fanciful stories of them winning over the oppressor … the classic David and Goliath story … where the little guy gets to win. Only problem is, all throughout our actual human history, the big guy, the strongest and most wealthy always wins and destroys the little guy. It’s a fantasy we like to perpetuate to make ourselves feel good about the terrible reality we actually we live in.