cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/25133597
Come one come all to the Lemmy-verse! It’s nice and cozy here, we do have some “bad parts of town” but you can do an instance block and not deal with them lol
For your memes we have !memes@lemmy.world if you like sciency posts mander.xyz has some excellent communities (communities=subreddits) like !science@mander.xyz and !biology@mander.xyz and for a meme science combo theres always the fantastic !science_memes@mander.xyz
You can also drop a shit(post) off at !lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world or hang out at !onehundredninetysix@lemmy.blahaj.zone (though you do have to post before you leave that one!)
There’s much more around as well!
Obligatory, fuck Spez
Oh hey this looks familiar LMAO
Before the tankies come in here
Their calls of unity and accusations of division are false, they’re Authoritarian “leftists” who deny anything bad of the CCP, Russia and NK from human rights violations to genocides and any evidence of said acts is nothing but “CIA/Western propaganda”
Tankies are not socialists, they’re not communists, they’re authoritarians, full stop.
Communism is a flavor of authoritarianism. You can’t tell me that the USSR valued freedom.
Stalinists et co are not the totality of communist thought, despite how much as they tried to portray themselves as such.
Okay, what about Mao?
Mao is a Maoist, and the CCP claim to be ‘the sole heir and successor to Joseph Stalin concerning the correct interpretation of Marxism–Leninism and the ideological leader of world communism,’ and I think (hope?) we can agree that Stalinism is not communism.
Okay, what about Pol Pot?
Okay, what about …
Look, I know you’re in your young 20’s, almost definitely white, definitely a man, and I was once each of those things, too.
You’ve gone down the Right-wing pipeline, you’ve nodded along, you’ve downed the kool-aid. From the sounds of it a light sprinkling of an extremely flawed, right-wing education system.
You are not experiencing your own thoughts. You’re regurgitating arguments you’ve heard online; over and over again, you say the same things, respond in the same way, make the same mistakes. You hamfistedly wave at anyone who ever called themselves socialist and go ‘see! look at these mistakes! They’re all the same!’ When in reality:
Although the emergence of the Soviet Union as the world’s first nominally socialist state led to widespread association of socialism with the Soviet economic model, it has since shifted in favour of democratic socialism. Academics recognised the mixed economies of several Western European and Nordic countries as “democratic socialist”.[34][35] Following the revolutions of 1989, many of these countries moved away from socialism as a neoliberal consensus replaced the social democratic consensus in the advanced capitalist world.[36] In parallel, many former socialist politicians and political parties embraced “Third Way” politics, remaining committed to equality and welfare while abandoning public ownership and class-based politics.[37] Socialism experienced a resurgence in popularity in the 2010s.
Let’s look at Pol Pot, to go back to your whataboutism:
Ideologically a Maoist and a Khmer ethnonationalist…
Seriously, it’s on his goddamn wikipedia page, dude. This, what you’re doing here? It’s embarrassing. You think you’re standing up to those meany evil ‘left-wingers’ when in reality you’re a Toy Poodle for fascism, yapping at what you’re told to, always waiting for another head pat from your online friends that never quite comes, never quite seems to make you feel like you feel it should.
Conservative parties began because aristocrats felt they had lost too much power, and wanted into the parliamentary system. It’s oligarchs now. Is that really who has your best interest? Do you think Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk or Trump care about you? That they will ever do something for you, at the expense of themselves?
Because over on the socialist side we’re at the protests, we’re at the strikes, we’re demanding change, we’re helping the poor, we’re punching up at authority. You’re ideologically marching alongside cops, brown shirts, Nazi’s, and you what, think they’ll spare you? At best you’re meat for the grinder when the fighting starts.
Look into all of this. Really dive into what Conservatism is, why it was created, how it’s been opposed to every advancement in society that you enjoy: shorter work weeks, shorter work days, actual safety for workers, workers compensation, paternity leave, health care, freedom to strike, etc. All of those are socialist-won, often through literal bloodshed.
What have wealthy billionaires done to make your life better? Why do you think they’re so invested in keeping you angry at visible minorities, women, ‘the left’, the 2% of the planet who are transgendered, the 2SLGBTQIA+ community? Why is it your enemies are all exactly strong enough to scare you, yet so weak you can insult them for it? Why do you have to punch down to hit these terrifying enemies of whatever it is you hold dear?
Okay bro wtf is that wall of text. They’re all communist, full stop. Trying to label them something else doesn’t change the fact that communism is a political system for psychopaths
I’m going to read all that later, but for the record, I’m a white man in my mid 30s.
You’re a Right-wing nut job, your opinion afaic, is worth even less than the tankies. And that should tell you a lot, but I know it won’t.
It’s lemmy, I honestly don’t really care what some random guy calls me.
What’s it like having even /c/conservative think you’re a right-wing nutjob? Do you think the entire world is a leftist conspiracy out to get you, personally?
Most conservative is just random Lemmy users finding it.
And no. Lemmy is a itty bitty part of the world. Why would I think it’s a world-wide leftist conspiracy?
Denying propaganda the CIA is selling you about China is not the same thing as denying everything the CCP has ever done wrong. Especially when even the CIA has backtracked their claims, and you religiously stick to it.
Lotsa butt-hurt heroes of the proletariat in the comment section.
Throw your Molotov-sippy-cups nice and hard so the commissars can see, sweeties!
Love everything about reddit but inexplicably wish to leave it?
Hate the idea of an english speaking internet that doesn’t slavishly adhere to the party line of the US alphabet agencies?
Do you think the parable of the nazi bar is bunch of hokum?
Do you have shrieking anger towards people who refused to support genocide while having shrieking anger at (usually the same) people rejecting decades long debunked accusations of genocide made by the perpetrators of aforementioned genocide?
Join the lemmyverse! We have racism! We have homophobia! We have trans misogyny! We have daily 5 minutes hate!
And if anyone tells you different, have you considered they’re a paid shill by the notorious gay sex haver Putler??
We have Ukrainian/Uyghur genocide denial!
“Not all people defending their country are nice people”
“It’s almost a genocide, but not quite, so it’s all good”
Priceless. Do you think Russia would have had moral problems arming questionable militia in the first place? Because at least the USA did, initially.
- There’s a big difference between ‘there’s Nazis in our military’ vs ‘our government is erecting monuments of Nazis.’
- It’s not even ‘almost a genocide.’ The US officials are trying to save face. The CIA and State Dept were training Uyghur extremists to destabilize the region, and they’re pissed China put a stop to it, and started rehabilitating the militants.
Your views seem to coincide with Russian propaganda.
You’re pro-Russian and think Russia was not wrong to break international law by invading a sovereign nation. I would bet.
This strikes me as much of the root of the problem here, of why immature and uneducated people are drawn to fascism. You all treat it like team sports.
You really can’t even imagine opposing Russia while also opposing Nazis. Or you’re just a Nazi looking to groom people into the ideology with Russiaphobia.
I’m a Finnish person with detailed understanding of Russia.
We literally fought Nazis and Russia, both.
I constantly criticise the US for it’s growing fascism. I also heavily criticise my own country for its authoritarian tendencies. See unlike you, I don’t have a preferred flavour when it comes to injustice. I’m disgusted by it all.
So your attempt at generalising is really ironic here. You are literally doing what you blame “others” for doing “treating it like team sports”. But you can’t accept a single criticism of Russia. And would NEVER admit to the WELL DOCUMENTED war crimes they’ve pulled during their ILLEGAL INVASION of a sovereign country with some ridiculous excuse of “we are invading them to save them from Nazism and install our dear leader”.
“ideology of Russiaphobia”
First of, it’s “russophobia”. Secondly, no, pointing out facts about Russia, like their endless amount of war crimes isn’t any sort of discrimination, вахтера.
Authoritarian bootlickers is ironic, while at leats the Americans are watch their country go full authoritarian fascist right now.
And actively defend when their preferred side talks about having the biggest military budget and loves war as a method of spurring the economy!
I’m curious where a lot of those folks come from/what their backgrounds are. I assume like 50% are Russian bots, but of those who are real people, how’d they end up where they are in life/holding those opinions? I have a hard time wrapping my head around it.
I understand, I know that neoliberals have a very hard time recognizing the humanity of anyone outside of their own little bubble.
Why treat them as humans when you can act smug they didn’t enjoy voting for a milquetoast capitalist who only listens to the rich?
Lemmy.ml is the original instance and the dev instance. I joined it because there was literally no alternative at the time. It’s pretty annoying being called a tankie left and right because of this
It’s also because the devs are communists. Let’s not skip that part lol
Communist is not the same as tankie. Lemmy probably wouldn’t exist if the devs weren’t communist
They sensor criticism of the CCP
No they don’t, reasonable criticism of the CPC is fine, they just ban jinogistic “China bad! Tinyman square! Winnie the pooh!” nonsense.
Those are pretty tame criticisms of the CCP to ban, it sounds like you just made that user’s argument for them.
Incivility is only when you call out liberal hypocrisy and .world, otherwise it’s sparkling marketplace of ideas.
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Yea who cares about those little human rights violations and genocides the CCP does along the way, just sweep those under the rug!
Imagine believing that CCP is a good representative of destroying capitalism. Typical lib. smh.
I see calling people “tankies” is the “woke” of the Fediverse.
Nah, they’re authoritarian genocide deniers.
The opposite of woke.
I’ve been called a tankie in the same posts where I criticize the USSR and Russia, or when I say China isn’t inherently good or evil.
Tankies are to liberals what woke is to Republicans. Taking a term invented by a community, reclaiming it, giving it a new definition only used by them.
“Tankie Triad?” Really? This is just McCarthyian LARPing, you don’t have to constantly saber-rattle towards the Marxist-friendly instances.
In my book, it isn’t “tankie” until they are the kind who claim all the authoritarian regimes that were never democratic to be “communist”.
You can’t have communism without democracy, that’s the whole deal, it’s in the freaking name, community.Claiming to be “communist” when your regime is authoritarian is like claiming to make soup without liquids.
You can replace water with other stuff like broth, or even beer and wine, to make soup. But you need a liquid to make soup. That’s soup’s whole deal. Without a liquid as the base, or if you take out all the liquid after doing it, whatever you are doing, whatever you call it, it ain’t soup.
For example, portable soup may have “soup” in the name, but it isn’t soup. It’s dehydrated food. It may have been soup once, but it isn’t soup.The thing is, AES states are democratic. They usually don’t have competing liberal parties like Western countries, but instead a more comprehensive form based on electing delegates. For example, the USSR functioned like this:
For further reading, Soviet Democracy by Pat Sloan.
Further, the “point” of Communism isn’t Democracy to begin with. Communism is a prediction, not a perfect society created in a lab, of what will necessarily happen as humanity develops. Marx predicted humanity will move towards a fully publicly owned and planned economy with democratic control because industry gets larger and more complex over time. I think if you take away that Communism is based on analysis and not on some Utopia, you take away the reason why Communism makes sense to begin with.
Don’t worry Redditors… it’s the same “the Right sucks, and the Left can do no wrong” rhetoric you hear over there…
This seems like an odd message considering that Lemmy, as software, is being praised here; and what is being criticized are instances wherein the admins enforce apologism for authoritarian regimes.
If someone writes a program you like, it means they’ve got good political ideas. /s
I would argue FOSS is more akin to cooperative anarchism or library economics. Murray Bookchin
Tankies aren’t communists.
“Tankie” is a pejorative that basically looks like an exact replica of McCarthy’s strawman of a Communist. The purpose of the term is to claim the accused that they genuinely hold those McCarthyian characteristics, regardless of reality. It shuts down conversation because it would be inconvenient to have those conversations, it’s a thought-terminating cliché more than a real thing.
Here are some thoughts:
Marx said communism is stateless
The state won’t wither away if you keep defending its right to use force
The vanguard party must either accept revolution against themselves so that society can become more communist, or become reactionary tyrants
Modern Russia isn’t fucking socialist, you don’t need to defend it anymore
State capitalism isn’t socialism. State socialism requires robust democracy
Every actual successful communist nation that reached communism didn’t have a vanguard state
Being an enemy of the West doesn’t mean a country inherently deserves your support. That’s how voting works, it’s not how international relations work
Trump is planning to displace the Palestinians and make Gaza a US colony, and Lemmy’s Marxist-Leninist community tried to help him
Having a small movement with little power isn’t an excuse for making bad decisions. Take responsibility for your actions
Drag is not seeking to have an argument about each and every one of these points. Drag is seeking to prove that “tankie bad” is not a thought terminating cliche as you said. Drag has plenty of thoughts, and has already discussed them exhaustively on this platform. And this list of thoughts isn’t an invitation to sealion.
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Different leftists have a different idea of what constitutes the “State” and what “Statelessness” looks like. For Marxists, the State is the oppressive elements of class society like millitarized police and armies that can only go away once the world is fully publicly owned and planned, and becomes classless. Anarchists however have an issue with hierarchy, rather than class, and want full decentralization and horizontalism. For a Marxist, Anarchism isn’t “stateless” as it retains class distinctions (each commune is interested in its own success), Anarchists obviously would see Marxism as not truly stateless.
This difference is why a lot of conversations go nowhere between some Marxists and Anarchists.
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Yeah, at this point the word “tankie” is used so liberaly that communists are just one type of “tankie”.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankie
Tankie is a pejorative label generally applied to authoritarian communists, especially those who support acts of repression by such regimes, their allies, or deny the occurrence of the events thereof
