Yeah and why the big deal? I didn’t notice any signs saying the fediverse is only for lefties. I may not agree with conservatives but that doesn’t mean I think they should be excluded.
Sure they should. Their entire online presence revolves around hurting people they dislike.Has there ever been a forum they contributed positively too?
Too many people give these jackholes the benefit of the doubt. “They don’t think trans people should exist. I don’t agree, but we have to hear them out” is a cowards line that puts their freedumb of speech above trans people’s right to exist.
I hope we’ve learned that lesson by now. Sure, wait for them to break a rule or whatever. Maybe this is just one guy and maybe it’s just going to sit there. But the moment they start talking—because we all know what they’re going to say—give them the bums’ rush.
Oh hey no I don’t think we have to hear them out. Especially not if they’re coming out with hate speech - that shit should always be smacked down hard. When they start doing that, we can defed the fuckers - but they haven’t done that yet.
Maybe I’m too soft, I just don’t wanna see lemmy turn into an echo chamber.
Why tolerate the intolerant? They can host whatever they want, but there’s no reason not to exclude them if they intend on bringing harm. Tbh the word “excluded” doesn’t really fit, exclusion would be like someone getting kicked out of a bar, defederating would be more like the bouncer not letting you in.
At the end of the day even if it’s gonna be defederated by every other instance, nobody’s gonna forbid them from starting their own “bar” like the one shown, which means they’re not really excluded from the fediverse.
I don’t think we should tolerate them. This is what we always hear from them when we tell them to fuck off - how many times have we seen “So much for the tolerant left!” Yeah, we are tolerant of pretty much anything that doesn’t harm others - aside from intolerance itself.
I dunno, I just don’t like the idea of defeding ppl just because of their political leanings. I’d rather wait til they start spewing hateful shit and then defed the fuckers.
But I can understand ppl who wanna keep lemmy clean of bigots. I just think we gotta wait til they show their colours then kick them to the curb. That’s me, though, I respect that others don’t feel the same.
Bad faith answer, though. MAGA cunts aren’t “conservatives”, they are outright fascists.
If you want conservative, you’d have to look at people who just want the status quo. In other words, the more milquetoast Christian democrats.
The fediverse is for ‘everyone’, but that doesn’t mean we put up with fascists. It’s only for people who aren’t batshit insane. In other words, not for fascists and transphobes.
If you identify with conservatism, as in, going to Church, wanting a traditional family yourself – by all means you’re welcome! so long as that means you let others also have their own life that might not involve those, and don’t hate or question their lifestyle.
but if you’re a fascist or transphobe, then get the fuck out here and go touch grass
The good thing is that all sane instances can just defederate and we won’t have to deal with them. They can use the software all they want, and we can shut them out from our spaces all we want.
I’m not sure how effective that’ll be in the long-term though, if the less politically aware instances don’t block them, or don’t realise in time. They’ll attempt to chip bit by bit away.
Yeah I guess I failed to distinguish between maga and conservatives. I don’t want to see lemmy become an echo chamber, and usually you can disagree but debate with conservatives. Fascists, not so much. Don’t get me wrong, I think Nazis should be stomped online and out in the world - I just haven’t seen anything yet from this instance to justify that.
I actually feel kinda sorry for oldskool conservatives - I don’t agree with em, but they must feel politically homeless these days.
Yeah I guess I failed to distinguish between maga and conservatives
To be fair, the entire Republican party seems to be all about blurring that line right now. I think the big challenge is Trump awakened something in folks who haven’t been politically active in a very long time, and because they haven’t been politically active, they aren’t coming into politics with a clear ideology or set of policies they want to see passed other than “I like trump!” Which is probably a big part of why we just have a bunch of attempts at turning his presidency into a dictatorship and state-sponsored racism as the only clear policy trump actually cares about, and any policies that are directly enriching large businesses are just a case of those with deep pockets cozying up to folks in power with loose morals.
But let’s be real, the Republican party hasn’t been about conservatism for quite a while. They’ve definitely been coasting off of pure brand recognition with occasional injections of christofascism and state sponsored violence against minorities to help maintain their old jim crow roots. They’ve successfully cultivated a culture of being Republican, so they can do what they want policy-wise and still reliably win around a third of the elections in the country without resorting to voter suppression, and they can reliably win about half of the elections in the country with voter suppression
I think the big challenge is Trump awakened something in folks who haven’t been politically active in a very long time, and because they haven’t been politically active, they aren’t coming into politics with a clear ideology or set of policies they want to see passed other than “I like trump!”
Yeah I wanna slightly amend that - I think their ideology is certainly “I like trump” but I think the reasons behind that are they see him as a big strong leader who validates and legitimises their prejudices - and will allow them to act on those prejudices. Suddenly the hate they felt for their immigrant neighbours, or their fear of gay people, whatever - suddenly they have a leader saying that’s okay and he’s now supporting their discrimination with military deployment in US cities.
This is how fascism happens - it’s not always forced on a population, a lot of times a lot of people want it.
And the oldskool republican party was essentially a corporate mouthpiece.
Scary fuckin times, mate. The snowball is rolling down the hill and it’s growing and it’s accelerating.
I used to be one of those oldschool conservatives. I’m much more progressive now, but what I do think helps, is the following.
Fascists won’t listen to progressives. So what will pull them out of that black hole, is having them listen to more ‘boring’ people, but without the opportunity to overtalk them. Let fascists listen to normal views and don’t let fascists take over the discussion. Youtube videos with comments disabled, PDFs by anonymous authors, and so on, that can help.
The common man’s best ally is reaching out to the milquetoasts, and having the fascists listen to them and you while also not listening to them. Never yield to their beliefs; have a red line beyond which you won’t discuss with them. Use their own tactics against them.
I used to know one. Whenever they still wanted to discuss their batshit crazy views, I told them I declined discussing that stuff with them, and wouldn’t interact with them unless if they could shut up about that.
It usually worked (though not 100%), so I consider that a general-ish success.
As I mentioned, the status quo. So basically the average Joe that doesn’t care much either way, isn’t gonna hate or support, but also not apathetic. Basically people who just want stability, not fascism (which is inherently unstable in that it perpetuates a state-led chaos and terror).
As for nature, the whole “X is UnNattural” is nonsense fabricated by religious fundamentalists, tbh. Nature is wilder than whatever they can cook up.
I’ve seen lots of people lately attempting to distance conservatism from MAGA, and I’m sorry but it has failed. You need to extricate yourself from the hateful ideology that you (presumably) subscribe to.
So super short version is a conservative dude or three tried to create /c/conservative and were immediately drowned out and made fun of, then they transferred moderation to others who now use it to make fun of republicans
Sounds like they explicitly don’t want to federate. Unless it’s a parody site, I guess.
It’s entirely possible it’s a spectacularly successful trolling mission by one person.
Seriously, look how many people are up in arms about an instance with one user.
Yeah and why the big deal? I didn’t notice any signs saying the fediverse is only for lefties. I may not agree with conservatives but that doesn’t mean I think they should be excluded.
Well, I think they should be excluded. Due to the Nazi Bar phenomena.
Sure they should. Their entire online presence revolves around hurting people they dislike.Has there ever been a forum they contributed positively too?
Too many people give these jackholes the benefit of the doubt. “They don’t think trans people should exist. I don’t agree, but we have to hear them out” is a cowards line that puts their freedumb of speech above trans people’s right to exist.
I hope we’ve learned that lesson by now. Sure, wait for them to break a rule or whatever. Maybe this is just one guy and maybe it’s just going to sit there. But the moment they start talking—because we all know what they’re going to say—give them the bums’ rush.
I mean, have you ever interacted with Hexbear? The right doesn’t have a monopoly on being awful.
Oh hey no I don’t think we have to hear them out. Especially not if they’re coming out with hate speech - that shit should always be smacked down hard. When they start doing that, we can defed the fuckers - but they haven’t done that yet.
Maybe I’m too soft, I just don’t wanna see lemmy turn into an echo chamber.
If everyone is being cool to everyone, is that an actual problem?
People don’t want to federate with MAGA-themed instances.
Why tolerate the intolerant? They can host whatever they want, but there’s no reason not to exclude them if they intend on bringing harm. Tbh the word “excluded” doesn’t really fit, exclusion would be like someone getting kicked out of a bar, defederating would be more like the bouncer not letting you in.
At the end of the day even if it’s gonna be defederated by every other instance, nobody’s gonna forbid them from starting their own “bar” like the one shown, which means they’re not really excluded from the fediverse.
I don’t think we should tolerate them. This is what we always hear from them when we tell them to fuck off - how many times have we seen “So much for the tolerant left!” Yeah, we are tolerant of pretty much anything that doesn’t harm others - aside from intolerance itself.
I dunno, I just don’t like the idea of defeding ppl just because of their political leanings. I’d rather wait til they start spewing hateful shit and then defed the fuckers.
But I can understand ppl who wanna keep lemmy clean of bigots. I just think we gotta wait til they show their colours then kick them to the curb. That’s me, though, I respect that others don’t feel the same.
Bad faith answer, though. MAGA cunts aren’t “conservatives”, they are outright fascists.
If you want conservative, you’d have to look at people who just want the status quo. In other words, the more milquetoast Christian democrats.
The fediverse is for ‘everyone’, but that doesn’t mean we put up with fascists. It’s only for people who aren’t batshit insane. In other words, not for fascists and transphobes.
If you identify with conservatism, as in, going to Church, wanting a traditional family yourself – by all means you’re welcome! so long as that means you let others also have their own life that might not involve those, and don’t hate or question their lifestyle.
but if you’re a fascist or transphobe, then get the fuck out here and go touch grass
Conservatism IS fascism, with “nicer words”… Until they seize power, then the nice words stop.
The good thing is that all sane instances can just defederate and we won’t have to deal with them. They can use the software all they want, and we can shut them out from our spaces all we want.
I’m not sure how effective that’ll be in the long-term though, if the less politically aware instances don’t block them, or don’t realise in time. They’ll attempt to chip bit by bit away.
Yeah I guess I failed to distinguish between maga and conservatives. I don’t want to see lemmy become an echo chamber, and usually you can disagree but debate with conservatives. Fascists, not so much. Don’t get me wrong, I think Nazis should be stomped online and out in the world - I just haven’t seen anything yet from this instance to justify that.
I actually feel kinda sorry for oldskool conservatives - I don’t agree with em, but they must feel politically homeless these days.
But yeah, bigots can fuck right off.
To be fair, the entire Republican party seems to be all about blurring that line right now. I think the big challenge is Trump awakened something in folks who haven’t been politically active in a very long time, and because they haven’t been politically active, they aren’t coming into politics with a clear ideology or set of policies they want to see passed other than “I like trump!” Which is probably a big part of why we just have a bunch of attempts at turning his presidency into a dictatorship and state-sponsored racism as the only clear policy trump actually cares about, and any policies that are directly enriching large businesses are just a case of those with deep pockets cozying up to folks in power with loose morals.
But let’s be real, the Republican party hasn’t been about conservatism for quite a while. They’ve definitely been coasting off of pure brand recognition with occasional injections of christofascism and state sponsored violence against minorities to help maintain their old jim crow roots. They’ve successfully cultivated a culture of being Republican, so they can do what they want policy-wise and still reliably win around a third of the elections in the country without resorting to voter suppression, and they can reliably win about half of the elections in the country with voter suppression
Yeah I wanna slightly amend that - I think their ideology is certainly “I like trump” but I think the reasons behind that are they see him as a big strong leader who validates and legitimises their prejudices - and will allow them to act on those prejudices. Suddenly the hate they felt for their immigrant neighbours, or their fear of gay people, whatever - suddenly they have a leader saying that’s okay and he’s now supporting their discrimination with military deployment in US cities.
This is how fascism happens - it’s not always forced on a population, a lot of times a lot of people want it.
And the oldskool republican party was essentially a corporate mouthpiece.
Scary fuckin times, mate. The snowball is rolling down the hill and it’s growing and it’s accelerating.
I used to be one of those oldschool conservatives. I’m much more progressive now, but what I do think helps, is the following.
Fascists won’t listen to progressives. So what will pull them out of that black hole, is having them listen to more ‘boring’ people, but without the opportunity to overtalk them. Let fascists listen to normal views and don’t let fascists take over the discussion. Youtube videos with comments disabled, PDFs by anonymous authors, and so on, that can help.
The common man’s best ally is reaching out to the milquetoasts, and having the fascists listen to them and you while also not listening to them. Never yield to their beliefs; have a red line beyond which you won’t discuss with them. Use their own tactics against them.
I used to know one. Whenever they still wanted to discuss their batshit crazy views, I told them I declined discussing that stuff with them, and wouldn’t interact with them unless if they could shut up about that.
It usually worked (though not 100%), so I consider that a general-ish success.
Maga is conservatism. Stop trying to separate the two, they are the same fucking thing.
It’s reactionary, not conservative. If they’d been conservative, they’d not actively try to revert the US back to the colonial age.
They’re not the same.
Those are both the same thing.
What do you think conservatives are trying to “conserve”? Because it ain’t nature.
As I mentioned, the status quo. So basically the average Joe that doesn’t care much either way, isn’t gonna hate or support, but also not apathetic. Basically people who just want stability, not fascism (which is inherently unstable in that it perpetuates a state-led chaos and terror).
As for nature, the whole “X is UnNattural” is nonsense fabricated by religious fundamentalists, tbh. Nature is wilder than whatever they can cook up.
The status quo of systemic white supremacy and the patriarchy… So… fascists.
I’ve seen lots of people lately attempting to distance conservatism from MAGA, and I’m sorry but it has failed. You need to extricate yourself from the hateful ideology that you (presumably) subscribe to.
I remember when /r/the_Donald was just “parody”. Remember what happened there?
I mean, remember what more recently happened with /c/conservative?
I don’t think that I do
So super short version is a conservative dude or three tried to create /c/conservative and were immediately drowned out and made fun of, then they transferred moderation to others who now use it to make fun of republicans
it is a parody seemingly, according to @gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de’s comment