I am asking because I know people from both sides:

  • People who discourage it: usually talk about how the beggars might spend their money on, how they might be lying, How donating to them will encourage them to keep begging and how they should be looking for a job instead (My commentary: finding a job is impossible for them this days, matter of fact there is literally hundreds, if not thousands of articles online talking about how hard and impossible it had become).
  • People who encourage it: to be honest here, they usually talk only about religious reasons.

(Note: I know that the overview about both sides are highly unbalanced, but I preferred to keep it limited to my personal experiences rather than expanding it from myself, as I intentionally not looking for theories and objective logic, rather I am looking at people reasons and opinions as this is highly subjective matter.)

Anyone got any thoughts about this?

  • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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    1 day ago

    Anyone got any thoughts about this?

    Calling them “beggers” is shitty and outdated…

    And with you saying the people who help others only do it for religious reasons…

    It makes me think you should be saying what geographic area you’re in when asking these questions, because it just doesn’t sound like any western country.

    All this stuff might be normal where you’re from, but not where most Lemmy users are.

    Or maybe there’s another reason you keep using terms that are outdated in Europe/Canada/America?

    • PonyOfWar@pawb.social
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      Calling them “beggers” is shitty and outdated…

      I’m from a western country but I guess I’m completely ignorant here - what’s the non-shitty/outdated term?

      • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        Use adjectives to describe people, not nouns to label them…

        Super basic, and applies to almost ever scenario.

        It’s about not reducing someone to one attribute, and it’s been around for like a decade at least in western society.

        • PonyOfWar@pawb.social
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          So something like “begging person” or “beggarly person”? I guess I can see where you’re coming from. I’ve never heard people talking like that though, so it might not be as universal to western society as you think.

          Personally, if you called me a German, a furry or a vegetarian, I wouldn’t mind, even though none of these attributes encompass my entire existence. I guess the difference is that being a beggar carries a negative connotation, but I’m not sure that saying the same thing using slightly different phrasing really makes any appreciable difference.

          • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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            1 day ago

            So something like “begging person” or “beggarly person”?

            Why are you so insistent to use “beg”?

            “Someone asking for donations” maintains their dignity and communicates the point clearly…

            Personally, if you called me a German, a furry or a vegetarian, I wouldn’t mind, even though none of these attributes encompass my entire existence.

            Ok…

            But we don’t call people what we would like to be called, we don’t set the minimum of respect for everyone else

            If didn’t have a home, job, or food, you might be less willing to be dehumanized.

            The privileged are usually the least sensitive to that.

            Like, I’m 6’4", if someone that’s 6’6" walked up and said “Hey shorty, what’s up”. I won’t give a single fuck.

            If I was a 5’2" man, I might be offended, and if I said a 5’2 man had to be ok with it because I was, I’d be a jackass.

            That’s literally preschool level empathy, and it’s depressing so many people here never learned that

            • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
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              You’re being very condescending here. “Someone asking for donations” does not really communicate what is meant here. You’re asking for tap dancing around the subject and that phrase is almost meaningless. If you said “homeless person asking for donations” I would agree that is better.

            • PonyOfWar@pawb.social
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              “Someone asking for donations” maintains their dignity and communicates the point clearly…

              It really doesn’t though, in my opinion. If you talk about “someone asking for donations”, I’d think of a volunteer collecting money for the local animal shelter. So if you actually wanted to communicate clearly, you’d have to go for something like “a person, typically a homeless one, who lives by asking for money or food”. That’s literally just the Oxford definition for “beggar” though. If you put that in the title of this question, it probably wouldn’t even fit.

              Like, I’m 6’4", if someone that’s 6’6" walked up and said “Hey shorty, what’s up”. I won’t give a single fuck. If I was a 5’2" man, I might be offended, and if I said a 5’2 man had to be ok with it because I was, I’d be a jackass.

              Firstly, I don’t think that “shorty” is a good comparison, as that’s an unambiguous (if mild) insult.

              Secondly, it’s not like anyone here is talking to any particular person calling them a beggar. If someone who was talking to me just called me “the German” instead of my name, yes, that might be a bit reductive and potentially rude. But if someone goes on Lemmy to ask “Why do Germans drive so fast on the Autobahn?”, that’s an entirely different thing. In that context it’s simply a word that clearly conveys a meaning without having to use an entire sentence to explain it.

    • Pro@reddthat.comOP
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      1 day ago

      Calling them “beggers” is shitty and outdated…

      Go on… what is the newer term?

      you should be saying what geographic area you’re in

      Nice try, CIA.

      • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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        Go on… what is the newer term?

        Using adjectives to describe an aspect of a person instead of a noun to reduce them to a single aspect…

    • Troy@lemmy.ca
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      The pendulum has swung too far. Come back to the centre.

      • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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        We’re fighting fascism buddy…

        If someone saying it’s better to use adjectives than nouns is enough for you to want to meet in the middle with fascists, it sounds to me you were looking for an excuse to tell people to get closer to fascism

        • Troy@lemmy.ca
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          Playing games with language doesn’t solve poverty. It just makes you feel holier-than-thou.

          • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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            So…

            Not only do you view dehumanizing language as “no big deal” you’re actively choosing to spend your free time online to argue with people about how we shouldn’t put any effort into it.

            Like…

            Are you just ignorant on how language changes thinking? Or do you understand how serious this is and just deciding to side with the fascists on this (and probably other) topics?

            https://news.umich.edu/word-choice-hidden-meanings-can-influence-our-judgment/

            https://studyfinds.org/language-influences-reality/

            Like. This should be “common sense” but there’s been studies on it for decades.

            Do you really not understand how word choices effect a message?

            • Troy@lemmy.ca
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              You’re arguing about word choices and message. It’s about as useful as “thoughts and prayers”. Go lobby politicians for UBI, or volunteer for Habitat for Humanity or whatever your local equivalent is. Do something real. Have a nice day.

              • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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                You’re arguing about word choices and message

                Because that effects how people think and treat others…

                This isn’t just my opinion, this has been studied extensively, not just for word choice within one language but how different languages cause people to think differently.

                I thought you just weren’t aware, but I provided a couple sources and you’re getting angry and still wanting to aide with the fascists on the right…

                That kind of only leaves one reason for why you’re still denying science…

        • CmdrShepard49@sh.itjust.works
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          You’re not fighting fascism you’re fighting a bunch of strangers based on how they refer to individuals in a hypothetical scenario based on your personal, ever changing, in-group language. Identity politics don’t actually help anyone. They just make liberals feel good as they step over people sleeping on the sidewalk.

          • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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            We’re fighting fascism buddy…

            I meant in general that is what’s happening in 2015…

            based on your personal, ever changing, in-group language.

            Again, this isn’t a personal opinion, there have been multiple academic studies showing the effect language choices like this on thinking since the 1980s at least.

            It’s not “ever changing” but if 40 some years is too fast for you, lots of conservatives feel the same.

            I just don’t spend a lot of time interacting with someone who views a personal inconvenience like this apparently is as such a big deal and worth hurting others.

            But again, lots of conservatives do. MAGA 100% agrees with you, and regretably there’s a lot of them these days.

            So I’ll leave you free to talk with the people you agree with.