Yeah I’m trying to avoid MS if possible, especially since I probably have to try to make the jump to linux eventually with how things are going. I probably need to at least try Visio though, to see is it able to do what I want, so far I’ve had no luck with alternatives for it.

For example draw.io doesn’t seem to work for this (I’ve tried before as well), since I really need easy auto arranging for the nodes for it to be usable enough - and I haven’t been able to do that with it. So far the only thing that I’ve found to work even relatively well for what I want to do has been this even with it’s many limitations, since it allows to just pulling the lines wherever and it will auto arrange everything. When the trees grow to crazy sizes (over a hundred etc.), it’s almost impossible to make things work without the auto arranging, otherwise I wouldn’t even need the tools I’m looking for…