• NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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    2 days ago

    I mean, pushing with the neoliberals only puts Britain on the same path as America, and we’ve seen how that worked out.

    • TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      Putting everyone in the “neoliberal” group as if they’re the same isn’t productive IMO. Labour, Lib Dems, SNP, Tories, and Reform aren’t all the same.

      People also need to be realistic about what the electorate overall wants.

      • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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        2 days ago

        Of course they’re not the same; Tories are conservatives and Reform are fascists, but that has nothing to do with what I’m talking about. There’s still no hope in “unity” with Labor or any of their ilk; they’re simply not going to allow the things that need to be done to be done. We’ve literally just seen this happen in America, and nothing makes me believe Labor is different enough from the Democrats to produce a different result.

        People also need to be realistic about what the electorate overall wants.

        The electorate can be made to want new things; they’re simply not thinking about leftwing politics and ideas seriously enough for the status quo to be final, and why would they? The people who should be championing those ideas actively avoid acting on them not to alienate the neoliberals, so of course leftwing politics will have zero credibility with the electorate. You need to promote and make a good faith effort to enact your ideas before you can expect others to believe in them.

        • TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world
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          2 days ago

          You keep saying Labor, are you from the UK?

          And tbh, while Labour is far from socialist, they’re doing some left wing things:

          • Nationalising rail. Seems left wing to me.

          • Nationalising steel. Seems left wing to me.

          • Nationalising parts of our energy sector. Seems left wing to me.

          • They’re increasing workers rights in a bunch of different ways. Seems left wing to me.

          • They’ve significantly hiked minimum wage. Seems left wing to me.

          • They’ve implemented a windfall tax targeting profiteering energy firms. Left wing.

          • Placing VAT on private schooling. Left wing.

          • Means testing WFA. Left wing.

          • Placing taxes on non-doms. Left wing.

          • Invested a great deal more in infrastructure. Left wing.

          • Capped public transport costs. Left wing.

          • Implementing stricter rules for landlords. Left wing.

          • Essentially restarting SureStart in all but name. Left wing.

          • Changing inheritance tax to squash loopholes surrounding buying up farmland. Left wing.

          • Ending the use of offshore trusts as a way to avoid inheritance tax. Left wing.

          • Bringing the NHS back under direct public control. Left wing.

          • Expanding green energy. Left wing.

          There’s probably more I’ve not thought of, too.

          • HumanPenguin@feddit.uk
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            24 hours ago

            Some of those yep. But the majority are questionable. Looking at them with any sceptical thinking.

            Nationalising rail. Seems left wing to me.

            Yep

            Nationalising steel. Seems left wing to me.

            Temp national control. No actual plans to leave it nationalised. Much like the Tories did to failing rail franchises. Not left wing. Just desperation. More like Tory temp rail nationalisation of franchises to avoid bankruptcy / loss of survice. Then actual attempts to move left.

            Nationalising parts of our energy sector. Seems left wing to me.

            Nationalising part to avoid the whole. This is more a way of using gov money to support private investment in green energy. Then for the gov to control the market or essential inferstructure.

            They’re increasing workers rights in a bunch of different ways. Seems left wing to me.

            Leftish. But more a move towards less extreme right of Tories. The right they are returning were added during the thatcher etc period.

            They’ve significantly hiked minimum wage. Seems left wing to me.

            Sounds exactly like Tory policies to me. The Tories spent years claiming they wanted work to pay. And significantly increased min wage.

            They’ve implemented a windfall tax targeting profiteering energy firms. Left wing.

            As did the Tories.

            Placing VAT on private schooling. Left wing.

            Yep def left.

            Means testing WFA. Left wing.

            Given the method of means testing leaves only the very desperate covered. While pensioners on blow living wage income still cannot cover rising bills. Not to mention it is very openly declared as a cost saving measure to avoid taxing the wealthy.

            No it is just more right wing then even the Tories were willing to be.

            Placing taxes on non-doms. Left wing.

            Yep

            Invested a great deal more in infrastructure. Left wing.

            Promised to. While openly stating they have 0 ways to fund it. But will not tax the huge increase in wealth disparity created over the Tory gov.

            No it’s just the same 40 hospitals, North investment, we will build more houses. That the Tories roll out every time their polls look bad.

            Capped public transport costs. Left wing.

            So the Tories are left wing.

            This was a Tory policy policy. Literally labour limited the rise in cost to 50%. Because they knew they did not have the support to cancel it.

            Implementing stricter rules for landlords. Left wing.

            Yes

            Essentially restarting SureStart in all but name. Left wing.

            Promises promises. But I’ll wait to see some real funding before assuming it’s not more desperation. Remember this and the investment in inferstructure only happened when polling indicated disaster.

            All of this looked like an attempt to avoid the 120 welfare objectors pushing for a no confidence vote,

            Changing inheritance tax to squash loopholes surrounding buying up farmland. Left wing.

            Yep.

            Ending the use of offshore trusts as a way to avoid inheritance tax. Left wing.

            Yep. But also a little we will catch tax avoiders. Something the Tories keep claiming every election. But yes some action is good.

            Bringing the NHS back under direct public control. Left wing.

            Yep

            Expanding green energy. Left wing

            Promises. And also an open Tory policy pre them heading more right wing around Bojo time. Both the left and right have a history of pushing green.

            Pre Bojo it green was no longer a left wing policy but one seen as required by all parties. Funding methods was the only diff. And labour are using private investment.

            This is more the moving overton window pushing post election Tory party away from it. Then labour being left.

            • TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world
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              9 hours ago

              No, the majority are not questionable. Every single one of those are unambiguously left wing moves.

              People are falling victim to the anything to the right of me [socialist] is right wing.

              Labour are objectively a centre-left party, and I just gave evidence of that. Saying “well all of that is left wing… but it doesn’t count!” isn’t a legitimate argument.

              • HumanPenguin@feddit.uk
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                8 hours ago

                Labour are objectively a centre-left party,

                Fucking bullshit.

                They are supporting genocide.

                They are arresting people for expressing support for things they disagree with. 80yo priest for signs opposing genacide and supporting Palestine Action. What ever your views on the action of Palestine Action. Arresting folks who support it is fascism.

                Cutting benefits to disabled people. Purely to avoid raising taxes on the wealthy.

                You are just ignoring right wing actions. And many out right evil action. In a vain attempt to support your own flawed views about the parties leadership.