Chattel slavery is incompatible with liberal democracy. There’s no fuzzy area to debate the point.

I would agree with that. Can you point to where we were discussing liberal democracy?

For any policy authored by the enfranchised majority that impacts the disenfranchised minority, its passage and execution is categorically and indisputably undemocratic.

So no laws involving children or immigrants, then?

You’re doing exactly what I’m arguing against. You’re attributing a bunch of other qualities to “democracy,” and demanding that they be treated as part of the actual definition.

I think we are done here. You’re arguing against things I’m not writing.

One-Person, One-Vote is the generally recognized answer.

Yes, that is the general answer for who gets to vote. But as I describe, that doesn’t guarantee fair.

To get what we think democracy means, we need as fair system, (who gets to vote) and a fair election. (votes counted properly)

But you’re missing my point. I’m not arguing that a restricted voter population is a good thing. I’m arguing that it’s still a democracy, provided it meets certain qualifications. I’m arguing that words have meanings, and that we shouldn’t be letting 1960 anti-red patriotism trick is into thinking that “democracy” means anything more than leaders appointed by voting.

A bad democracy is still a democracy. An unfair democracy is still a democracy. A corrupt democracy may be a democracy, depending on the nature of the corruption.

And the Wright Flyer was an airplane.

This depend very much on how you define “fair,” and how it is used in context.

So, I would say a system that only let’s white male landowners vote is not “fair” because only an elite group gets to vote. But if their votes are counted properly, and their decision upheld, the election is “fair,” and it’s a democracy.

On the other hand, a system that lets everyone over 18 vote is arguably “fair.” But if the votes are not counted correctly, and the results are false, then the election is not “fair,” and you don’t have a democracy.

To further the thought, I suppose that if the voting populating is a small enough percentage of the general populating, then it is not a democracy, rather than just a bad democracy. Not sure where that line is, though.

Vimes had once discussed the Ephebian idea of ‘democracy’ with Carrot, and had been rather interested in the idea that everyone had a vote until he found out that while he, Vimes, would have a vote, there was no way in the rules that anyone could prevent Nobby Nobbs from having one as well. Vimes could see the flaw there straight away.

-Terry Pratchett, The Fifth Elephant

He had such a way with words, he did.

Yea. If we counted popular vote, rather than EC, that would not qualify him for president.

I’m not actually sure what happens if no candidate gets a majority.

It’s not a good democracy, no. The fact that Trump is not following the rules suggests that it isn’t a democracy at all, since we are voting for stick figures, not leaders. But he was elected fair and square, at least until we find evidence otherwise.

And again, “democracy” doesn’t mean “good,” or “fair” or “virtuous.” We are none of those things right now, weather we are a democracy or not.

I’m prepared to argue that fake voting doesn’t count.

we count ancient Greece as a democracy, don’t we?

Last I checked, democracy didn’t mean “fair,” it ment that the leaders were voted into power.

In the old scam, I believe you world indeed get a book with the names of everyone who paid to get a book with the names of everyone who paid to get the book.

Bloody Cardys can’t be trusted.

Yea, that’s about what I expect it to be.

Of course they will make a deal. On their terms, when Trump is desperate to get trade moving again.

he just did it anyway

He didn’t just do it anyway. I doubt he knows which ends of a patch cable goes in the wall, and which in the computer.

Someone who knew what he was doing, and why it was a terrible idea, verging on criminal, did it.

This sounds like gender affirming care to me. Is there somewhere we can report it?

Yea, we know. When is the last time a Republican administration did anything to help regular people? Or anything that might be good for the economy?

Doesn’t happen.

That confused me at first, but I realized that he’s speaking “orders of magnitude,” which means that 365 rounds to 100.

It’s mostly done in physics, and briefly, your only count the number of digits. If I’m comparing a number with 3 zeros to a number with 12 zeroes, the actual number hardly matters.

That’s a good thing, is it?

Yes. Always good to say it again, though, lest people forget.

They aren’t MAGA Republicans. They are just Republicans. Whatever remnants of sanity those people may have left is not calling the shots.

I’m reminded of a line from Yes, Minister.

If you’re going to do this damn stupid thing, so do it in this damn stupid way.

If they actually wanted this to work, they world have given people some time to get their shit in order.