• Michael@slrpnk.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    2
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    edit-2
    1 day ago

    It really doesn’t take many verses to convince somebody who truly believes in God and believes Jesus died for their sins.

    Just because there is propaganda doesn’t mean that it is ironclad. And it’s not “Source: Trust me bro”, it’s “Source: Jesus and his disciples”.

    • Uriel238 [all pronouns]@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      11
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      edit-2
      11 hours ago

      It’s source: Jesus and his disciples as compiled decades later with some efforts at editing and revision. (e.g. Proverbs Thessalonians is allegedly sourced from Paul even though the scholarly consensus is that it’s counterfeit, and written after Paul by a ghostwriter.)

      The bible is not univocal, not inerrant and not divinely inspired, so, as scholar Dan McClellan notes, every Christian has to negotiate with the text to arrive at doctrinal mores and values they agree with.

      Ultimately, the bible can be used to justify anything, and it is!

      Considering the most obvious biblical take on slavery and on women, the bible isn’t that great a source for personal and social values to begin with.

      • Michael@slrpnk.net
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        edit-2
        1 day ago

        My point stands. Real Christians would pay attention to Christ - they see the source as valid. Of course the texts have been manipulated over many years - and have less than ideal takes on slavery and on women.

        Fortunately, Christ’s teachings are still pretty clear and are easily quotable and digestible. It’s harder to twist Jesus to serve hateful narratives than it is to quote Jesus and the love he obviously taught.

        • zalgotext@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          1 day ago

          You don’t have to twist Jesus to make him seem like a bastard. He kinda preaches love, sometimes, but also preaches doing a bunch of shitty, immature, and sometimes downright heinous shit.

          • Michael@slrpnk.net
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            1 day ago

            Surely there are examples (of which I am aware of a few), but they do not take from his overall teachings. I’m not the devoted Christian that the other commenter mistakenly views me as, but someone who understands the gist of the New Testament because I was forced into Christian High School and studied the Bible as a whole. It was a subject that I was graded on, so I’d like to say I probably understand the general themes better than most.

            Although I do repress a lot from that time and I suffered multiple TBIs, so maybe I’m completely off-base. I don’t believe that I am, though.

            • zalgotext@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              edit-2
              1 day ago

              The gist of the New Testament is “everyone thinks the old God is vengeful and mean, so we’re gonna send a new one down to rehab his image, but in reality, he’s (literally) still the same old vengeful bastard who condones violence, rape, and killing, but somehow got billions of people to look the other way on that because he says love thy neighbor once”

              That’s what I get from my reading of it anyways

      • andros_rex@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        5
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 day ago

        e.g. Proverbs is allegedly sourced from Paul even though the scholarly consensus is that it’s counterfeit, and written after Paul by a ghostwriter.

        Proverbs is Hebrew Bible/Old Testament, and attributed to King Solomon, not Paul.

        • Uriel238 [all pronouns]@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          11 hours ago

          I might be thinking of Thessalonians. Not a biblical scholar, I, but there are still known late-age revisions known by scholarly consensus that are yet regarded as canon by major religious ministries.

          The bible also teems with internal conflicts and passages that are commonly misinterpreted in modern theology, so it has to be negotiated with.