Okay, I read it. I agree with it all, and sure, perhaps the ability to change the Democratic party from the ground up is a bit fantastical. However, this does not contradict my main point, which is that by not voting, you voted for more genocide than by voting left. Even if you believe that, fundamentally, the only way to achieve change is by revolution, that doesn’t contradict my point. Not voting is not a form of revolution. As is laid out by the pamphlet, Revolution needs to come from outside the system, but that doesn’t mean you can just wash your hands from the consequences of your actions. Revolution doesn’t happen over night. I think everyone should be doing what they can to contribute to a revolution, but not voting does not do that. As people try and organize a revolution outside of the system, they should still use the systems in place to prevent as much tragedy in the meantime as they have power to do so, and by pretending you can ignore the system, you are actively contributing to worse tragedy then by partaking.
You’re going to have to make a real argument to defend your stance, calling me stupid and quoting an entire pamphlet isn’t really proving what you are trying to argue.
This is such a bizzare dissonance that I don’t know how I can help you.
You’re happy to admit you voted for genocide, ostensibly read an essay about the contradictions of liberal electoral politics, but still come to the same conclusion that voting for a party in the US is important.
Only one of us voted for genocide. Stop lying to yourself.
You seem to be missing my point entirely, which leads me to believe you haven’t thought out your own opinion on this fully. Also, you have yet to give any actual reason that would prove not voting is the best possible action, or that it doesn’t directly result in more genocide than voting. If you aren’t actually going to say anything in favor of your own argument, I must assume you are arguing in bad faith. Further, it appears your understanding of your reference is flawed.
Nowhere in the paper that you mentioned does it say that voting is pointless, just that it won’t lead to meaningful systemic change. Which does suggest that this system does not work long term, and definitely needs to be dismantled. This is something I agrre with. However, in the short term your vote does in fact matter when it comes to the immediate future. By not voting, you directly contributed to genocide. By voting, I would have directly been contributing to genocide. Unfortunately, we are in a country where there are three actions to take, and all lead to genocide whether we want it to or not. I understand that it feels better for you to pretend that ignoring the system means you didn’t pick a worse genocide than if you voted, and I understand that it sucks that we are forced into 3 choices that all result in varying levels of genocide. In the short term, immediate future, the best play is to vote for the least genocide. In the long term, it is worth trying to dismantle the system completely from outside the system itself. These are not mutually exclusive.
Yeah, I kinda figured this was where you were heading. You’re either very misguided or a troll. I wanted to give you an opportunity to explain your stance without devolving into name calling or insults, but at every moment you could have explained yourself, you dodged every question. You had me read a paper that I read in good faith in hopes that it would explain your point of view, because for some reason you aren’t willing to. However, the paper, while adjacent to the issue, didn’t actually condone your decision at all, nor condemn mine. I honestly can’t even tell if you yourself know what was written in that paper. It feels like I’m talking to someone who is parroting an opinion, not forming one for themselves.
I get that it’s a hard pill to swallow, but from all ways I can find to look at it, your not voting directly supported genocide, worse than if you voted left. I get that you need to tell yourself that you are obstained from that guilt in order to sleep at night, but it doesn’t change the impact of your actions.
At this point, considering your inability to engage in a proper discussion, I’m no longer writing for you but others who may want to continue this discussion. I really want to understand the reasons why people didn’t vote, as I haven’t heard a good explanation for it.
Let’s be clear here, I am not a liberal. I didn’t like any candidates from either side. I hate both sides of this system and want to see it dismantled. However, I can also see that, because I live in America and am eligible to vote, I have been forced into participating in a broken system, whether I want to or not. I don’t happily claim that I voted for genocide as you appear to believe, I’m just not blind to the fact that there is no way to not vote for genocide in this system. Not voting is still an action within the system, as it directly results in a boost in favor of whatever party that opposes the party you would have voted for.
Read Reform or Revolution. You’re clueless but you don’t need to stay so.
Okay, I read it. I agree with it all, and sure, perhaps the ability to change the Democratic party from the ground up is a bit fantastical. However, this does not contradict my main point, which is that by not voting, you voted for more genocide than by voting left. Even if you believe that, fundamentally, the only way to achieve change is by revolution, that doesn’t contradict my point. Not voting is not a form of revolution. As is laid out by the pamphlet, Revolution needs to come from outside the system, but that doesn’t mean you can just wash your hands from the consequences of your actions. Revolution doesn’t happen over night. I think everyone should be doing what they can to contribute to a revolution, but not voting does not do that. As people try and organize a revolution outside of the system, they should still use the systems in place to prevent as much tragedy in the meantime as they have power to do so, and by pretending you can ignore the system, you are actively contributing to worse tragedy then by partaking.
You’re going to have to make a real argument to defend your stance, calling me stupid and quoting an entire pamphlet isn’t really proving what you are trying to argue.
This is such a bizzare dissonance that I don’t know how I can help you.
You’re happy to admit you voted for genocide, ostensibly read an essay about the contradictions of liberal electoral politics, but still come to the same conclusion that voting for a party in the US is important.
Only one of us voted for genocide. Stop lying to yourself.
You seem to be missing my point entirely, which leads me to believe you haven’t thought out your own opinion on this fully. Also, you have yet to give any actual reason that would prove not voting is the best possible action, or that it doesn’t directly result in more genocide than voting. If you aren’t actually going to say anything in favor of your own argument, I must assume you are arguing in bad faith. Further, it appears your understanding of your reference is flawed.
Nowhere in the paper that you mentioned does it say that voting is pointless, just that it won’t lead to meaningful systemic change. Which does suggest that this system does not work long term, and definitely needs to be dismantled. This is something I agrre with. However, in the short term your vote does in fact matter when it comes to the immediate future. By not voting, you directly contributed to genocide. By voting, I would have directly been contributing to genocide. Unfortunately, we are in a country where there are three actions to take, and all lead to genocide whether we want it to or not. I understand that it feels better for you to pretend that ignoring the system means you didn’t pick a worse genocide than if you voted, and I understand that it sucks that we are forced into 3 choices that all result in varying levels of genocide. In the short term, immediate future, the best play is to vote for the least genocide. In the long term, it is worth trying to dismantle the system completely from outside the system itself. These are not mutually exclusive.
You’re like a shitty little liberal LLM.
Stop writing essays and go organize for the Dems.
Yeah, I kinda figured this was where you were heading. You’re either very misguided or a troll. I wanted to give you an opportunity to explain your stance without devolving into name calling or insults, but at every moment you could have explained yourself, you dodged every question. You had me read a paper that I read in good faith in hopes that it would explain your point of view, because for some reason you aren’t willing to. However, the paper, while adjacent to the issue, didn’t actually condone your decision at all, nor condemn mine. I honestly can’t even tell if you yourself know what was written in that paper. It feels like I’m talking to someone who is parroting an opinion, not forming one for themselves.
I get that it’s a hard pill to swallow, but from all ways I can find to look at it, your not voting directly supported genocide, worse than if you voted left. I get that you need to tell yourself that you are obstained from that guilt in order to sleep at night, but it doesn’t change the impact of your actions.
At this point, considering your inability to engage in a proper discussion, I’m no longer writing for you but others who may want to continue this discussion. I really want to understand the reasons why people didn’t vote, as I haven’t heard a good explanation for it.
Let’s be clear here, I am not a liberal. I didn’t like any candidates from either side. I hate both sides of this system and want to see it dismantled. However, I can also see that, because I live in America and am eligible to vote, I have been forced into participating in a broken system, whether I want to or not. I don’t happily claim that I voted for genocide as you appear to believe, I’m just not blind to the fact that there is no way to not vote for genocide in this system. Not voting is still an action within the system, as it directly results in a boost in favor of whatever party that opposes the party you would have voted for.