Kirk is being posthumously celebrated by much of the mainstream press as a noble sparring partner for center-left politicians and pundits. Meanwhile, the very real, very negative, and sometimes violent impacts of his rhetoric and his political projects are being glossed over or ignored entirely.

  • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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    23 hours ago

    He was an example of how dangerous “debate club culture” can be.

    It teaches people that all that matters is how well you can attack/defend positions, it erases the line between right and wrong. And they carry that view into the real world and politics.

    Ted Cruz was/is a master debater, because to be really good at it, you have to have a slinky in place of a spine. You have to be able to argue both sides of any issue as effectively as the opposite.

    They’re only say what the person in front of them wants to hear in the moment.

    Kirk was never out to learn anything, he didn’t even want to change anyone’s minds.

    He wanted to reinforce the existing beliefs of his followers.

    • SkybreakerEngineer@lemmy.world
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      22 hours ago

      He wasn’t even that, just seemed to be if you weren’t really paying attention. Hell, in his last words he got proven wrong on trans shooters, then pivoted to blaming gangs (aka black and brown people)

      • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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        22 hours ago

        He told his followers exactly what they wanted to hear in response to every question, including the last two before he was shot.

        It doesn’t matter if he was right or wrong factually, he gave his followers warm and fuzzy feelings.

        • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
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          16 hours ago

          Exactly, and if you’d watched his long standing stuff it was always very much him debating to a crowd using bad faith arguments and taking advantage of the fact that he had a skill that’s easy to not be aware of, is completely irrelevant to the stated goal (proving that one is correct) or implied goal (coming to mutual agreement), and that most people he debated lacked. Furthermore because he was the one recording any time he loses he can not publish it. He financially, professionally, and emotionally was never in a place conducive to productive debate and discussion. And I would argue he was in many ways antithetical to the concept of university.

          Debate as a competition cannot be fair when it attempts to reflect healthy and positive debate because in that case the better side has an advantage unrelated to player skill. What Kirk was doing was a long campaign against consensus reality. He was particularly skilled at combining the Shapiro tactic (priming the audience by saying you’ve won by using facts and logic so that’s what they see) alongside a belligerent strategy (ie constant advancement regardless of merit) and politely phrased incendiary ideas to tilt his opponents and make them lose their cool and seem overly emotional.

          He was a rhetorical stage magician

    • WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world
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      23 hours ago

      A narcissistic con artist spewing hate for profit?

      So every “conservative” politician, journalist, influencer, etc, etc…

      • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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        21 hours ago

        I have a feeling this isn’t the only exchange where reading comprehension has left you questioning what you just read…

        You may be better off not trying to read into what someone might mean. And focus on what they actually said.

        For example:

        Turning Point USA CEO and co-founder Charlie Kirk said of gun deaths on April 5, 2023, “I think it’s worth it. I think it’s worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment to protect our other God-given rights.”

        https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/charlie-kirk-gun-deaths-quote/

        If Charlie Kirk could answer, he’d say this is just something we have to accept and not dwell on…

        You can still ask him if you want, he just can’t answer.

        And according to his personally held opinions, no one should be concerned that he can’t answer.