As MLK Jr. once said, a riot is the language of the unheard.
Violence, even just as a reminder that the social contract is bidirectional, not unidirectional, has its uses, so long as the grievance is clearly communicated in the process.
regular, persistent, angry protests (necessary and foundational)
small, medium, large organizations in coalition, loosely coordinated, some ad hoc
pressure and advocacy at all scales of government
strong, educational and propagandistic cultural surge across all forms of media
a meaningful conversation at most kitchen tables, and coalition of former adversaries
a vanguard of shitdisturber vandals and saboteurs to draw ire and attention in useful ways (dumb fucks usually mess this up, the circleA tattoo is so shallow)
critical mass, then the changes just cascade
This is how history teaches us about change. Read Antonio Gramsci, it’s useful.
Awesome, Most of that is peaceful and the rest isn’t storming the capital.
Have you ever thought about advisories trying to get us riled up so we can be killed or our cities taken over? Who stands to gain from American extreme, civil unrest?
If LA protestors had gone violent against anything more than a waymo or car, they would have been mowed down.
True, true. We have a bit of that going on here on Lemmy. Not nearly as bad as the big boys, but it’s here a bit. Also, the trolls know how to manipulate how things are ordered here pretty well.
They’ll make long diatribes knowing that new trumps high score for awhile.
They upvote the shit out of themselves
They downvote the shit out of posts to get them not to show.
They harass users so that they get a bad vibe.
Best way to deal with trolls is to post once and then move on. I haven’t been doing it in this thread because I’ve been testing them to see where they’ll go. They’re still not the best ones, which is good. But they’re good enough.
Thank you for stating (what should be) the obvious. I saw someone mention that the only way to deal with fascists is at the end of a tank and I’m wondering where that rolls in from and why they haven’t considered what MLK had to say on the matter. Your point about fomenting a precursor is spot on as well, we’re seeing it in Chicago.
Again, what would that look like? You’re all saying this quips without saying what you mean.
“A riot is a good thing, violence and destruction and all, if it expresses unheard concerns in a way that makes the powerful take note.”
“Why don’t you say what you REALLY mean!?”
???
If a person looked sideways at the white house or any other branch who isn’t on trump’s side, they would get gunned down in a second.
… the post is about ongoing riots in Nepal, which have damaged a billionaire politician’s house. Not the ultra-secured official residence of the head of state.
They took over their government recently. There are a lot of paid trolls trying to incite violence so trump can do the martial law thing or whatever else he has planned. I’m not fighting over doing what SreudianFlip says, I’m saying be careful about what inspires people to act and what those actions are.
Okay, let’s go with that they’re not trolls and pissed off Americans. Then, they would be able to speak clearly about what they really mean and not downvote the crap out of anyone that wants to understand what they’re talking about. Also, they would want to get people on their side, not shit on everyone. There are at least 2 of those in this thread.
Or, they’re pissed off Americans that have done nothing and have no plans to do anything. So, trolls in a sense too.
You do not know what you’re talking about. BLM were mostly peaceful and only harmed property, just like in LA. Also, they didn’t go after billionaires.
Should people actually be able to form themselves into a ‘well regulated militia’…
((Please note that in 18th century parlance, ‘well regulated’ simply means disciplined and organized, not officially sanctioned from and authorized from a higher authority, as we might interperet it today))
((We are a country formed out of such things more or less spontaneously self organizing and then that later leading to the formation of an official revolutionary army, … our early history actually had a good deal of controversy around whether or not we should even have a permanent, professional military, vs more or less relying on drafting the population into such militias, or even allowing them to continue forming spontaneously, outside of government authorization/call to arms))
Yeah, it would suck, a LOT, avg people do not have tanks and jets and artillery, but conventional militaries tend to lose to competent guerillas on a long enough time frame… or a rather short one if said conventional military has terrible morale, enormous logistics issues, tons of defections.
Who knows?
That’s the terrifying part of revolution: No one has any real, totally certain idea of what could or would happen, untill you try, untill you it is happening.
Of course, doing the actual organizing would be quite difficult at current moment…
If not actually ‘well regulated’, with a common, clear, defined purpose, it would almost certainly be total chaos and basically a bunch of regional war lords…
But, in terms of potentially generating and solidifying that common purpose:
Give it another quarter or two untill the average person knows someone who is literally starving, despite being employed, the average person or family under area median income is starving, is being evicted, etc.
Or, perhaps Americans truly are just spoiled brat simpering inept cowards in comparison to other nations.
The cost of revolution is you; a soldier not willing to die is no soldier at all.
Call a moment in history like this a proverbial gut-check for the people of this country… we’ll see people’s true colors when all the toys and treats go away.
Last time I was there a few years ago, a message I had written on their communal white board thing was still there, a decade after I originally wrote it, at the culmination of a near black out inducing bar crawl, needed alllll those eggs.
Wow buddy, way to swing and miss on that one, holy shit.
Yeah, I too am originally from the Seattle area.
Oh god that’s funny, I have never in my life been accused of not being an American, hahaha!
Sure, yep, what I’m saying could be easily challenged, so the way you do that is attempt to attack my nation and state of origin, brilliant rhetoric.
Again, please actually challenge the content of what I wrote, not an ad hom, come on.
No, no, no I am from the west side, rooted for the Dawgs, protested for Palestinian rights in Red Square almost two decades ago, argued with my econ profs during the GFC, argued with my poli sci profs about US troops guarding opium fields in Afgjanistan…
I do have an appreciation of nature and have been to, hiked around, learned the wildlife of many different parts of the state… badlands can be fun in small doses, but no I prefer the evergreen and evergray weather.
And I did have some fun back during the police riots a few years back, running them out of Cap Hill sure was fun!
You’re talking to an anarchist, if your criticism is merely that violent revolutions are a thing that happens, and I described some historical and military… and human level, personal realities around that, you know with some passion…
Then yep, guilty as charged.
Here, watch, I can dual wield the second ammendment, and Marx’s ‘Under No Pretext’ at the same time, ah, ooh, scary!
Tell us all how that would look in America. Are you personally putting together a coalition to storm the capital? Let me know how that pans out.
That’s not a capitol building in the picture. Not sure where that came from?
You’re right let’s just sit and have fascism. you got any ideas?
You’re the one who said to choose violence. I’m curious on how you think that would look?
As MLK Jr. once said, a riot is the language of the unheard.
Violence, even just as a reminder that the social contract is bidirectional, not unidirectional, has its uses, so long as the grievance is clearly communicated in the process.
Again, what would that look like? You’re all saying this quips without saying what you mean.
If a person looked sideways at the white house or any other branch who isn’t on trump’s side, they would get gunned down in a second.
This is how history teaches us about change. Read Antonio Gramsci, it’s useful.
Awesome, Most of that is peaceful and the rest isn’t storming the capital.
Have you ever thought about advisories trying to get us riled up so we can be killed or our cities taken over? Who stands to gain from American extreme, civil unrest?
If LA protestors had gone violent against anything more than a waymo or car, they would have been mowed down.
Agents provocateurs have been with us all along. It’s an old tactic. I have run into some myself.
What’s new is algorithmic manipulation.
True, true. We have a bit of that going on here on Lemmy. Not nearly as bad as the big boys, but it’s here a bit. Also, the trolls know how to manipulate how things are ordered here pretty well.
Best way to deal with trolls is to post once and then move on. I haven’t been doing it in this thread because I’ve been testing them to see where they’ll go. They’re still not the best ones, which is good. But they’re good enough.
Thank you for stating (what should be) the obvious. I saw someone mention that the only way to deal with fascists is at the end of a tank and I’m wondering where that rolls in from and why they haven’t considered what MLK had to say on the matter. Your point about fomenting a precursor is spot on as well, we’re seeing it in Chicago.
Having been through it during Covid in Seattle, you got this Chicago. Send the national guard back home with a craving for italian beefs.
“A riot is a good thing, violence and destruction and all, if it expresses unheard concerns in a way that makes the powerful take note.”
“Why don’t you say what you REALLY mean!?”
???
… the post is about ongoing riots in Nepal, which have damaged a billionaire politician’s house. Not the ultra-secured official residence of the head of state.
They took over their government recently. There are a lot of paid trolls trying to incite violence so trump can do the martial law thing or whatever else he has planned. I’m not fighting over doing what SreudianFlip says, I’m saying be careful about what inspires people to act and what those actions are.
Have you ever thought that they aren’t trolls and actual are pissed off Americans?
Okay, let’s go with that they’re not trolls and pissed off Americans. Then, they would be able to speak clearly about what they really mean and not downvote the crap out of anyone that wants to understand what they’re talking about. Also, they would want to get people on their side, not shit on everyone. There are at least 2 of those in this thread.
Or, they’re pissed off Americans that have done nothing and have no plans to do anything. So, trolls in a sense too.
Violence is the only way power listens
What does that look like?
And in America, that person looking is the person who just killed the people who set the fire.
Yes, every BLM protestor is dead
You do not know what you’re talking about. BLM were mostly peaceful and only harmed property, just like in LA. Also, they didn’t go after billionaires.
There are a lot of guns in America.
Literally more than people.
Should people actually be able to form themselves into a ‘well regulated militia’…
((Please note that in 18th century parlance, ‘well regulated’ simply means disciplined and organized, not officially sanctioned from and authorized from a higher authority, as we might interperet it today))
((We are a country formed out of such things more or less spontaneously self organizing and then that later leading to the formation of an official revolutionary army, … our early history actually had a good deal of controversy around whether or not we should even have a permanent, professional military, vs more or less relying on drafting the population into such militias, or even allowing them to continue forming spontaneously, outside of government authorization/call to arms))
Yeah, it would suck, a LOT, avg people do not have tanks and jets and artillery, but conventional militaries tend to lose to competent guerillas on a long enough time frame… or a rather short one if said conventional military has terrible morale, enormous logistics issues, tons of defections.
Who knows?
That’s the terrifying part of revolution: No one has any real, totally certain idea of what could or would happen, untill you try, untill you it is happening.
Of course, doing the actual organizing would be quite difficult at current moment…
If not actually ‘well regulated’, with a common, clear, defined purpose, it would almost certainly be total chaos and basically a bunch of regional war lords…
But, in terms of potentially generating and solidifying that common purpose:
Give it another quarter or two untill the average person knows someone who is literally starving, despite being employed, the average person or family under area median income is starving, is being evicted, etc.
Or, perhaps Americans truly are just spoiled brat simpering inept cowards in comparison to other nations.
The cost of revolution is you; a soldier not willing to die is no soldier at all.
Call a moment in history like this a proverbial gut-check for the people of this country… we’ll see people’s true colors when all the toys and treats go away.
Where you from cowboy? What US state do you live in?
Hah!
You first.
Why would it even matter?
You got an actual critque of or comment on what I said, or just bluster?
I live in Seattle, Washington
Because we both know you’re not an American and you saying where you’re from could be easily challenged.
Hah!
You ever been to Beth’s Cafe?
Last time I was there a few years ago, a message I had written on their communal white board thing was still there, a decade after I originally wrote it, at the culmination of a near black out inducing bar crawl, needed alllll those eggs.
Wow buddy, way to swing and miss on that one, holy shit.
Yeah, I too am originally from the Seattle area.
Oh god that’s funny, I have never in my life been accused of not being an American, hahaha!
Sure, yep, what I’m saying could be easily challenged, so the way you do that is attempt to attack my nation and state of origin, brilliant rhetoric.
Again, please actually challenge the content of what I wrote, not an ad hom, come on.
Nah, you wrote a shit ton that is basically saying for everyone to suck it up and do violence. You do you and let me know how it goes.
Beth’s Cafe is open again. So you visited at least twice if I go by your word. What, a Yakima dude or maybe more of a Centralia vibe?
No, no, no I am from the west side, rooted for the Dawgs, protested for Palestinian rights in Red Square almost two decades ago, argued with my econ profs during the GFC, argued with my poli sci profs about US troops guarding opium fields in Afgjanistan…
I do have an appreciation of nature and have been to, hiked around, learned the wildlife of many different parts of the state… badlands can be fun in small doses, but no I prefer the evergreen and evergray weather.
And I did have some fun back during the police riots a few years back, running them out of Cap Hill sure was fun!
You’re talking to an anarchist, if your criticism is merely that violent revolutions are a thing that happens, and I described some historical and military… and human level, personal realities around that, you know with some passion…
Then yep, guilty as charged.
Here, watch, I can dual wield the second ammendment, and Marx’s ‘Under No Pretext’ at the same time, ah, ooh, scary!