• Echo Dot@feddit.uk
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    2 months ago

    Just to be clear because everybody seems to be missing this point.

    Palestinian Action, is an organisation. Membership of that group is banned, it is not illegal to support Palestinians or to call out Israel’s genocide. The government doesn’t like it when you do, but it’s not actually illegal for you to do it.

    This organisation broke into a UK air force base in order to protest. They are not being charged because they protested, they’re being charged for breaking in and damaging a lot of military equipment. I think it’s a bit far to call them terrorists, but you can sort of see the government’s point, if you squint.

    The UK government does however absolutely deserve to get it in the neck for their support of Israel. Labour have had a pretty awkward relationship with Israel in particular and anti-Semitism in general for a long time, and they’re now keen to be seen as supporters, but there are limits.

    • JustTheWind@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Thank you for this clarification. This is an extremely important context. “Palestine Action” is the particular name of a very specific organization, so the title of the article is obviously a bit misleading.

      Still very worrying and more than a bit concerning, though. Here’s to hoping for a future strengthening of UK speech laws. Though, frankly, I’m not so sure about US speech laws anymore. Cheers.

      • starman2112@sh.itjust.works
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        2 months ago

        Yes and I support that particular organization and the actions they perform. From what it sounds like reading the article, this very comment makes me a criminal in the UK

        God bless the first amendment 🦅🇺🇲

    • AlteredEgo@lemmy.ml
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      2 months ago

      I think it’s a bit far to call them terrorists,

      Did you mean “a bit unfair”? Because I don’t see how anybody would be terrorized by this. It’s clearly illegal but using terrorism here is very problematic, especially since what the military does to people in the middle easy is actual terrorism but not called that.

      Afaik the “anti-Semitism in Labour” was basically a made up smear by the Labour Party themselves to prevent Jeremy Corbyn getting elected. Not sure about other instances though.

    • Bloomcole@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      They even forbid the playing of “Don’t cry for me Argentina” during the wer to protect their Malvinas colony.

      • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
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        2 months ago

        That would have been the Conservatives though. The Conservatives under Thatcher were in power during the Falklands war.

        • Bloomcole@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          Same as in the US, that doesn’t matter.
          They will always support their regime wars.
          R/D in the US or Labour/Cons in the UK.
          Warcriminal Blair is a good example.

          • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
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            2 months ago

            The actions one political party are irrelevant to the actions of another political party. Especially over the course of such time.

            If you want to make the arguement that the labour party are warmongering then there’s much that you can do to make that arguement but to equate the current situation to the Falklands war is disingenuous at absolute best.

    • lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com
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      2 months ago

      They are not being charged because they protested, they’re being charged for breaking in and damaging a lot of military equipment. I think it’s a bit far to call them terrorists, but you can sort of see the government’s point, if you squint.

      Out of curiosity, I looked up the US Federal definition of terrorism

      definition
      1. the term “domestic terrorism” means activities that-
        1. involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;
        2. appear to be intended-
          1. to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
          2. to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
          3. to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
        3. occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States

      Due to the element danger to human life, their definition wouldn’t fit.

      However, the UK legal definition

      definition
      1. In this Act “terrorism” means the use or threat of action where—
        1. the action falls within subsection (2),
        2. the use or threat is designed to influence the government [or an international governmental organisation][1] or to intimidate the public or a section of the public, and
        3. the use or threat is made for the purpose of advancing a political, religious [, racial][2] or ideological cause.
      2. Action falls within this subsection if it—
        1. involves serious violence against a person,
        2. involves serious damage to property,
        3. endangers a person’s life, other than that of the person committing the action,
        4. creates a serious risk to the health or safety of the public or a section of the public, or
        5. is designed seriously to interfere with or seriously to disrupt an electronic system.
      3. The use or threat of action falling within subsection (2) which involves the use of firearms or explosives is terrorism whether or not subsection (1)(2) is satisfied.
      4. In this section—
        1. “action” includes action outside the United Kingdom,
        2. a reference to any person or to property is a reference to any person, or to property, wherever situated,
        3. a reference to the public includes a reference to the public of a country other than the United Kingdom, and
        4. “the government” means the government of the United Kingdom, of a Part of the United Kingdom or of a country other than the United Kingdom.
      5. In this Act a reference to action taken for the purposes of terrorism includes a reference to action taken for the benefit of a proscribed organisation.

      is wild: no danger to human life required, merely serious damage to property suffices!


      1. Words in s. 1(1)(2) inserted (13.4.2006) by Terrorism Act 2006 (c. 11), s. 34; S.I. 2006/1013, art. 2 ↩︎

      2. Words in s. 1(1)(3) inserted (16.2.2009) by Counter-Terrorism Act 2008 (c. 28), ss. 75(1)(2)(a), 100(5) (with s. 101(2)); S.I. 2009/58, art. 2(a) ↩︎

      • Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.works
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        2 months ago

        The UK definition isn’t that wild - the ‘ra used to plant bombs and then phone it in. There’s still terror seeing a building explode - knowing the only reason there aren’t casualties is because the bombers, this time, called it in with 15 minutes on the fuse.

    • skisnow@lemmy.ca
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      2 months ago

      Yeah, they lost an election over an antisemitism row a few years ago and have chosen the worst possible moment in history to start overcompensating for it.

      • wpb@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        It should be noted that it was the “please stop murdering children” kind of “antisemitism”, not real antisemitism.