Yeah it’s very hit and miss though, and potentially the bank could require strong Play Store integrity, which can only be achieved with a clean keybox file (hard to find).
With regards to contactless purchases, you’re actually better off doing it with the physical card contactless, in terms of consumer rights. A contactless card purchase is processed as “Cardholder not present”, where the seller assumes some of the liability for verifying the transaction is legit. With such a purchase you can easily argue that someone stole your card and made transactions without your permission, making it easier to claim under consumer protection laws.
This type of purchase has existed for decades and was used for catalogue purchases as well as early internet purchases. If you make a purchase with your card and PIN, or your phone with its PIN, then the purchase is considered authenticated by you and it will be harder to argue it wasn’t you. These days a lot of internet purchases are also authenticated (often by SMS or apps) but a contactless card purchase is not.
potentially the bank could require strong Play Store integrity
From reading GrapheneOS posts, that happens often. It’s really frustrating to be a paying customer and suddenly shunted out of the app (and thus practically the bank) because they can’t get their lips off of the Google exhaust pipe. We might need to start a coordinated movement to tell the EU to regulate this kind of shit.
It does happen often, and it changes over time. For example, my HSBC app used to work just fine without Play Store at all, then it requried some integrity, now it requires strong integrity.
Yes there are. Some can be made to mostly work without Google Services, and the majority do work perfectly well with microG.
I have apps from three different banks (I know, ridiculous, but there are reasons) on my /e/OS Fairphone 4 and as far as I can tell they all work 100%.
Magisk (root) plus possibly modules. I don’t think Revolut requires that, I think you can just set Magisk to Zygisk domain and hide root by putting Revolut in the deny list.
If it requires more then you’ll need to look into MicroG implementations on your device. Assuming Pixel devices (because the user above said GrapheneOS etc), then you’ll be installing MicroG as a Magisk module along with Play Integrity Fix, Shamiko, Tricky Store and Zygisk Assistant, at least for Android 14. You’ll need a clean keybox file though, and those are very tricky to get, if you want to pass strong integrity but you should be able to get most Play Store Integrity checks to pass then. Without the keybox though some banking apps won’t work (because those banks are bastards) without passing strong integrity.
It’s more like a bank. You get accounts for different currencies and you can buy/sell stock, commodities and crypto. Unlike PayPal, they have instant SEPA transfers.
Also, they very intentionally decided to block use of their app on custom ROMs, cutting out all Graphene/Calyx/e/OS users.
So… not great.
Are there any banks that really work without google services? I hope the EU will force banks to work without google services someday.
My bank works on LineageOS.
Everything? Even payments with the phone?
As in contactless payment at a terminal? No that requires google wallet. But if you mean making transfers yes.
I should’ve said contactless payments. But good to know that there’s a bank out there which has at least a functional app without google play.
Yeah it’s very hit and miss though, and potentially the bank could require strong Play Store integrity, which can only be achieved with a clean keybox file (hard to find).
With regards to contactless purchases, you’re actually better off doing it with the physical card contactless, in terms of consumer rights. A contactless card purchase is processed as “Cardholder not present”, where the seller assumes some of the liability for verifying the transaction is legit. With such a purchase you can easily argue that someone stole your card and made transactions without your permission, making it easier to claim under consumer protection laws.
This type of purchase has existed for decades and was used for catalogue purchases as well as early internet purchases. If you make a purchase with your card and PIN, or your phone with its PIN, then the purchase is considered authenticated by you and it will be harder to argue it wasn’t you. These days a lot of internet purchases are also authenticated (often by SMS or apps) but a contactless card purchase is not.
From reading GrapheneOS posts, that happens often. It’s really frustrating to be a paying customer and suddenly shunted out of the app (and thus practically the bank) because they can’t get their lips off of the Google exhaust pipe. We might need to start a coordinated movement to tell the EU to regulate this kind of shit.
It does happen often, and it changes over time. For example, my HSBC app used to work just fine without Play Store at all, then it requried some integrity, now it requires strong integrity.
Don’t know if mine works on lineageOS but the contactless payments are done via an additional app and is entirely independent of google wallet.
Edit: apparently the app works on lineageOS. So if you live in Germany, choose any Sparkasse and use their banking
You can try Curve as a contactless payment. I works without Google: Curve on /e/os
I see that it’s an intermediary, not a bank. You need to have a bank account first with a VISA or Mastercard and that’s what’s connected to Curve.
But thanks for pointing it out.
And Google Wallet is also not a bank…
I don’t use and have never used Google Wallet. Why are you saying this?
I haven’t seen any bank apps that support mobile payments. They always integrate with Google Pay instead.
Yes there are. Some can be made to mostly work without Google Services, and the majority do work perfectly well with microG.
I have apps from three different banks (I know, ridiculous, but there are reasons) on my /e/OS Fairphone 4 and as far as I can tell they all work 100%.
At least you can get around that.
How?
Magisk (root) plus possibly modules. I don’t think Revolut requires that, I think you can just set Magisk to Zygisk domain and hide root by putting Revolut in the deny list.
If it requires more then you’ll need to look into MicroG implementations on your device. Assuming Pixel devices (because the user above said GrapheneOS etc), then you’ll be installing MicroG as a Magisk module along with Play Integrity Fix, Shamiko, Tricky Store and Zygisk Assistant, at least for Android 14. You’ll need a clean keybox file though, and those are very tricky to get, if you want to pass strong integrity but you should be able to get most Play Store Integrity checks to pass then. Without the keybox though some banking apps won’t work (because those banks are bastards) without passing strong integrity.
Damn, I guess I’ll keep living without them.
Is this list outdated?
https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compatibility-with-grapheneos/
Lul
I heard about a client for Graphene once tho
Also, isnt revolut just a payment processor like paypal?
It’s more like a bank. You get accounts for different currencies and you can buy/sell stock, commodities and crypto. Unlike PayPal, they have instant SEPA transfers.