I don’t usually have sufficient motivation to post much on any social media platform. This is rare for me. I am putting this out in the world in part hoping for some validation, in part hoping it sparks some kind of social action to save some semblance of privacy and dignity in this modern world.
Warning: this is long.
I just wrote an email to a recruiter withdrawing my interest in pursuing a job (it’s a recruiter hired by the hiring company). I am a software engineer with decades of experience who has been unemployed for almost a year with almost no interviews. I’m hungry for paying work. Yet. I did this. Below is the email I wrote, and it is hopefully self explanatory.
I think my career might be over - especially if the kind of process I experienced is now the standard for hiring. I want nothing to do with it.
I wrote this after multiple days of trying to set up my system for the “assessment”. I ended up having to install Windows 11 (I’m a Linux guy) because the assessment environment simply didn’t work. I tried FireFox, disabled plugins, tried two versions of Chrome - neither would work. It apparently had to be the Google version.
I upgraded an old version of Win 10 (because Microsoft pretty much forced it). Got it to work on Firefox for Windows.
Twice, mid-way through the assessment, it reset itself to square one. I didn’t try a third time. This assessment software monitored my face and would raise an alarm if I looked away. It controlled my microphone. It required full access to every aspect of the browser and had me do an alt-tab partway through this “test” in order to ensure I wasn’t using any other software. Insulting. Invasive. My equipment. My home.
---- the email ----8<----
First, I appreciate your understanding and that you gave me what information you have on how this software works. Now, the hard part. My disappointment will show in the text, and it is not directed at you or your company.
I’m inclined to cease pursuing this. I feel insulted by the process in the first place, but went through it understanding that we, as job seekers, have to accept compromises we would not otherwise accept because having a job is a fundamental requirement to literally survive and provide for our children.
However, the more I’m expected to change my personal, owned equipment and software in an invasive fashion just so some stranger can have 100% surveillance on my activities in my home in order to be considered for a job interview, the more insulted I become.
Granted, I’m unusual. I’ve dedicated myself to protecting my electronic privacy by installing malware and advertisement blockers on my phones, computers, tablets. I use VPN. I built my own home NAS because I am uncomfortable with placing all my personal, financial, and health records into “the cloud” (and being charged for the privilege). I am teaching myself how to use AI by downloading and running models in my home lab because I don’t want to give out my privacy and income to strangers.
I stopped using Windows at home years ago because I could not stand the way it was dictating to me how to run my computer and constantly seeking to part me from my money with distracting advertisements while siphoning everything about me back to their servers to better market to me. Worse, it was forcing me to buy new hardware in order to simply run the system after upgrades.
Here I am, faced with a stark choice. Debase my values for the sake of the possibility of a job with a company that apparently doesn’t consider applicants worthy of dignity, or remain unemployed - possibly forced to exit the career I love if everybody is doing this - and potentially fall into poverty.
If they’re doing this before they even talk to me, it tells me that as an employee I will have at minimum this same level of surveillance. Knowing this in the back of my mind will burn me out in under six months.
Unfortunately, I don’t think I could live with myself if I chose the first option, so I respectfully withdraw myself from this process. I’m a professional. I expect to be treated like one. If there are companies who are serious about hiring a professional, I’m all in. Please engage me.
The hiring company failed the interview. It happens, and IMO you’ve exercised good judgement here.
My personal suspicion is that this sort of inhumane, inhuman, hiring process filters for people who are either desperate for work, or who don’t see anything wrong with this sort of thing.
I’m a professional. I expect to be treated like one. If there are companies who are serious about hiring a professional, I’m all in. Please engage me.
That’s really well said.
I remember being in the same situation a couple years ago in which I was accepted to an interview through a video chat web application hosted by the company.
To my horror, when I joined the meeting, it was not a video chat interview. It was a series of recorded clips of their HR person reading off questions, the clips pausing, and then a timer showing up on the screen noting “You have 15 seconds to answer”.
I was so put off by this that after the first question, I decided to spend the rest of the time I was being recorded explaining to them under no uncertainties that this was one of the most unprofessional interview processes I had ever engaged in, and that they had made it clear that they did not value my time whatsoever, so I had no reason to reciprocate.
You made the right choice. I was treated with more respect when I was flipping burgers in college.
If the company goes to those lengths to try to catch assessment cheaters, it’s not going to get better if you get hired. If they suspect you without having a reason, then they will always suspect you. You made the right choice.
IMHO, the response is a bit wordy, but I agree with where you’re coming from. You should consider trying to work for yourself, it may be very rewarding for you.
I am also a software developer. The interview process in our industry has become increasingly offensive over the last 30 years. That started out with high-prestige companies who provided exceptional pay and benefits. Some people were willing to put up with that, so they mostly got away with it. Now most companies assume they have all the power and can demand whatever they want from applicants.
Refusing to participate is perfectly legitimate. It may keep you from finding a job, at least in this industry, but that may be better than giving up your self-respect for basic survival. And there are still decent software companies to work for, although they are hard to find. Changing careers is also a viable option.
Our overall economy is so broken in favor of the super rich and their corporations that individuals really do have very little power. Organized actions, of various types, give us some counter-leverage. Collective bargaining, strikes, and political efforts to push for better regulations all have the potential to improve things, at least in the middle- to long-term.
We all need to keep the big picture in mind while we do what we need to get by individually.
this kind of disaffected ‘we’ll get to it later’ politicking is what got us here in the first place. sucks to be u, CA
@MasterBlaster If the company is in the EU, and they use AI to do facial recignition, that is actually illegal! See https://natlawreview.com/article/use-ai-recruitment-and-hiring-considerations-eu-and-us-companies
Yeah, but lucky me - I live in the “land of the free”. At least, it used to be true-ish. Not anymore. For example, Flock cameras are going up literally everywhere at lightning speeds. It’s near impossible to buy a car without GPS tracking and full time internet connection, etc., etc…
It’s the land of the free in that we’re free to fuck off and die in a ditch and pay for the privilege.
With liberty and justice for all who can afford it.
As a rule (at least for me), never never ever accept take home assignments or tasks that either require full control of your pc, or requires you to pull some sketchy repository from GitHub.
That’s one way to get infected with malware and potentially have your data stolen.
If you have to absolutely do this, do it on a VM.
But 99.99999% of the cases, there’s no need to install control software to a pc or having a 3rd party lib installed.
If a recruiting company requires this, then it’s a red flag.
You did well. You’ll find something soon.
Stay strong!
You’re career is not over. This is not how interviews work.
They’re saying that if everyone does hiring like this, they won’t be hired anywhere.
(Hopefully you mean that interviews aren’t normally conducted like this.)
I do. I might have misinterpreted.
I suspect OP was referring to the “been at it for decades” part, not the interview itself.
No, we want you on our equipment because we can’t trust you to stay secure, virus and malware free. When you crack the screen or have a fan die, we want to leverage our warranties and parts to repair the equipment. We don’t want to give you the keys to our repos and kingdoms to have them delivered to the nearest person adding a keylogger to a fitgirl repack.
People have actually been found off-shoring their own work to China by installing remote access clients on their work machines.
Don’t get me wrong, there are asshole companies out there that want to use activity trackers to see what you’re doing, most don’t give a shit and track you by what you do. We don’t need monitoring software to tell if you’re working or that you’re not vibecoding, we can tell by your actual work.
Yes, I am nuanced enough to understand the security issues and respect that - on their equipment.
As for monitoring, there is a very large and prosperous market for products to do exactly that, and we are frequently told we have no right to privacy on company equipment.
The watched pot never boils. The watched employee is constantly distracted, stressed, and wondering when he will be admonished or fired for something he doesn’t even know is a problem.
Jesus. That’s brutal. I’m not in the software world and have never experienced an process like you just described.
I do remember feeling similarly disgusted years ago applying for a retail job where I had to do an insulting “phone” interview/test where a computer asked me a bunch (like 20-30) of dumb fucking questions like:
- “Have you ever stolen money from your job?”
- “Do you think it’s okay to come to work drunk?”
- “If you put money in a vending machine and got two items instead of one, would you put additional money in for the second item?”
That last question very specifically is one I’ll always remember because of how incredibly stupid and insulting it is.
I hope you find work at a company that respects you as a human being and as a professional.
“If you put money in a vending machine and got two items instead of one, would you put additional money in for the second item?”
No, I fucking wouldn’t, and I wouldn’t like to work for anyone who wouldn’t hire me because of that fact.
No, I fucking wouldn’t, and I wouldn’t like to work for anyone who wouldn’t hire me because of that fact.
“no, i fucking wouldn’t” is the right answer. answering otherwise would not lead to you being hired (or at least not based on that answer), it would lead to you being considered extremely untrustworthy in your responses in the questionnaire.
I half convinced myself the test session blowouts were actually a personality test. Would I keep trying the same thing 5, 10, 15 times? Am I supposed to contact them calmly seeking support? Does the way I respond reveal something undesirable? These thoughts enraged me even more.
If they’re looking for integrity and honesty, their tests engender a different response. Anybody who expects those positive behaviors from me loses access to them the moment they deny me the same on their part.
I half convinced myself the test session blowouts were actually a personality test. Would I keep trying the same thing 5, 10, 15 times? Am I supposed to contact them calmly seeking support? Does the way I respond reveal something undesirable?
i don’ think so. it works similarly when kids do some online assessment tests as part of entrance exam in schools for example. all the interviewer, whoever they are, just try to offload all their expenses on the other side and they get away with it because people usually don’t have a choice 😔
As much as I generally agree with you on principles, you sound utterly insufferable
I was afraid that might be the collective response. Fortunately, that was not the case.
I am saddened so many had similar experiences, but glad I am not alone in my disgust and dismay at the state of affairs.
What in my writing gave you that sense? Perhaps I can improve my communication for the future.
For me it was that all you did in your email was talk about how you didn’t want to compromise your ideals. All that stuff your told us about how hard you tried, how much you compromised, how many times you were blocked then reset aren’t there. Those are the things that make your experience actually meaningful and relatable.
It would have been a lot better to send your preamble and wrap up with, “if you are able to provide a functional setup with the required environment for me to continue my application, I am happy to continue, otherwise I am afraid I must withdraw.”
Aha, okay. It would have been redundant to put that in there since we had just gone through that process together. I’d also mentioned my reservations in earlier emails.
Thanks for explaining it, it didn’t occur to me. You are right though about alternatives. He’d actually offered to seek another way, but I was emotionally unable to accept that at the time due to all the effort already sunk. For me it was cutting my losses, and I might have done myself a disservice there.
