I personally consider the poverty line to be when you can live safely and comfortably, which for most places around the world would be like $20,000 and for intercity New York would be like $80,000.
Anyone who objects can stick it into an inflation calculator and compare to “back in my day”
Well, a big part of the article is that you can’t just do that because the original formula was iffy even for the time when housing and insurance costs were not nearly as much of the average person’s expenses. That part of the article (well at least the original article this was based from https://www.yesigiveafig.com/p/part-1-my-life-is-a-lie) that was so interesting was that it was originally based on about 3x times the minimum food budget. Apparently that was just an easier number to be able to quantify at the time in the 60s and they just kept using it.
Unless I am mistaken poverty lines are usually for families not individuals.
I think 140k median us wide for a family seems reasonable. Sure it’s pretty high for some Low Cost of Living areas, but many of those areas lack local social services, public transit, etc.
Sure. But the issue is the sample size is naturally large so the Central Limit Theorem applies.
As such, the population of the US as a whole is likely normally distributed. Thus the outliers are normalized and this should not skew anything.
140k/4 is about 35k a person. Since a household of 4 assume 2 kids and kids consume a median of 30k a year not including housing you are limiting each adult to about 40k a year pre tax. Tax is going to consume about 50k so that’s 30k for 2 adults for the year. Housing costs at 1800 a month for a 2 bedroom eat up about another 20k.
This leaves 10k for food, clothes, etc.
Assuming I didn’t jack up my math (bad assumption even if I teach finance as a living), there is simply not enough money to really enjoy life. At 80k you are living on a 60k deficit, which means you rely heavily on the good grace of others to function.
I think the most achievable method to get this standard of living to everyone in short term is to properly define the limit as it applies to everyone. Giving everyone a guaranteed $140k, $35k per adult and child, would be exhorbitant in many places, though slightly more understandable if you’re limiting to the USA alone, and still not cover the highest cost areas at all. Giving the majority of people $20k per person and child, is doable and could more easily gain public support, and is sufficient.
Muddying the definitions and pushing an ever higher number like this author is doing doesn’t seem beneficial for the goal of getting people out of poverty.
Frankly. I don’t think I internalized the source material enough to provide a fair take on the source and concede the author likely conflates the issue poorly.
Thank so much for the intellectual bout. Appreciate you.
I personally consider the poverty line to be when you can live safely and comfortably, which for most places around the world would be like $20,000 and for intercity New York would be like $80,000.
140k just seems a little absurd.
The 140k amount was for a family of four and including childcare for two children.
That sounds about right. Anyone who objects can stick it into an inflation calculator and compare to “back in my day”
Well, a big part of the article is that you can’t just do that because the original formula was iffy even for the time when housing and insurance costs were not nearly as much of the average person’s expenses. That part of the article (well at least the original article this was based from https://www.yesigiveafig.com/p/part-1-my-life-is-a-lie) that was so interesting was that it was originally based on about 3x times the minimum food budget. Apparently that was just an easier number to be able to quantify at the time in the 60s and they just kept using it.
For how many people?
Individual
Unless I am mistaken poverty lines are usually for families not individuals.
I think 140k median us wide for a family seems reasonable. Sure it’s pretty high for some Low Cost of Living areas, but many of those areas lack local social services, public transit, etc.
Would that not then be letting the high cost outliers dictate the number for the vast majority? $20k x4 is $80k
Sure. But the issue is the sample size is naturally large so the Central Limit Theorem applies.
As such, the population of the US as a whole is likely normally distributed. Thus the outliers are normalized and this should not skew anything.
140k/4 is about 35k a person. Since a household of 4 assume 2 kids and kids consume a median of 30k a year not including housing you are limiting each adult to about 40k a year pre tax. Tax is going to consume about 50k so that’s 30k for 2 adults for the year. Housing costs at 1800 a month for a 2 bedroom eat up about another 20k.
This leaves 10k for food, clothes, etc.
Assuming I didn’t jack up my math (bad assumption even if I teach finance as a living), there is simply not enough money to really enjoy life. At 80k you are living on a 60k deficit, which means you rely heavily on the good grace of others to function.
I think the most achievable method to get this standard of living to everyone in short term is to properly define the limit as it applies to everyone. Giving everyone a guaranteed $140k, $35k per adult and child, would be exhorbitant in many places, though slightly more understandable if you’re limiting to the USA alone, and still not cover the highest cost areas at all. Giving the majority of people $20k per person and child, is doable and could more easily gain public support, and is sufficient.
Muddying the definitions and pushing an ever higher number like this author is doing doesn’t seem beneficial for the goal of getting people out of poverty.
Frankly. I don’t think I internalized the source material enough to provide a fair take on the source and concede the author likely conflates the issue poorly.
Thank so much for the intellectual bout. Appreciate you.
In fairness my offhand estimates might be lacking due to recent spikes in cost of living and breakdown of global trade relations.
Thank you.
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