So you’d stop eating meat when billionaires stop flying private jets? Then both of you will conveniently continue until our biosphere collapses.
To me, this sounds like a protective claim while you’re just as greedy, entitled and reckless as the flying billionaire, you just have fewer opportunities and resources. Contributing to something as evil as global animal agriculture while ignoring the numerous alternatives is something everyone has to take responsibility for, no?
You completely missed my point. I actively try to reduce my carbon footprint, but I will not jump through 16 extra hoops to save a tiny fraction of CO2, while Taylor swift fly’s to fucking space. You can not blame the entirety of climate change onto the single individual. Change is especially needed in terms of abolishing billionaires and it also has to come from the politics.
An example: In my hometown village there is basically zero public transit. There is some usable, but its main use is for people who aren’t in a rush and dont have that much other things that might interfere. If I want to drive to the next city without using a car it takes me about 1h, which includes about 10 minutes with riding your bike to the next village. This bus drives every two hours so a trip to the next city to do some stuff takes at least 2-3 hours and depending on what you have/want to do there it can quickly become a 4-5 hour trip. Under these circumstances I Am usually going to drive there by car (which takes about 20-25 minutes). Does it emit more CO2? Of course it does. Can I easily sacrifice 3-5 hours for something that can be done in 1-2? Usually not.
The thing is, we’re at a point where any reduction or slowing of Co2 is a victory, and can at the very least buy us (especially the populations most effected) a little bit more time to get our collective shit together against the big polluters.
But we don’t know when that time will come, so we need to do as much as we can until then. We know the billionaires planes will continue, but we can at the very least prevent some of our own emissions from compounding with them. Us doing our bit is not negated by the billionaires not joining in with us. It’s not fair, but the climate doesn’t care about fair, it cares about total emissions.
So let’s chip in collectively to slow things down, even if only slightly, until we can slow it down a lot. :)
Youre right, but each of us as an individual only has limited options. If politicians and billionaires dont want to take on climate change we sadly can’t do that much against it (except trying to influence politicians as a collective).
And its of course always a matter of money. If I dont have the money for a more climate friendly lifestyle, theres not that much you can do about it.
There are quite a few options we can do that either cost nothing to do, or even save money compared to the higher emission option.
Animal meat is usually more expensive than a plant based diet. Quorn is on par or cheaper than ground beef, homemade Seitan from vital gluten comes out to around $1.80/lb. Tofu, lentils, and beans are also extremely cheap. Red meat is the most polluting, so even just switching to chicken + vegetarian options would make a substantial difference.
Turning the temperature down in the winter will use substantially less energy and lower your bills, and can be compensated for with the use of hot water bottles, heating pads, and bundling up, along with other methods.
Consider joining your local Strong Towns (if you live in the US) to help make non-car transport more viable, even for rural areas.
Buy used instead of new where possible, and buy as little as needed.
There are low-cost solar options that can be implented slowly over time, and can be made extremely affordable using used panels from Craigslist/Facebook marketplace.
All of these combined will drastically lower your emissions. As an individual it wouldn’t impact much, but done collectively, it can make a genuine difference. I can at least vouch that you’d be joining in with me :p
You’re picking a water bottle out of a landfill and calling it a victory. If it makes you feel less powerless by all means, you do you. But there are a thousand corporations, each with a fleet of dump trucks adding to it every hour.
As an individual, it’s a drop in the ocean, yes. But done collectively at scale, those drops become a meaningful difference. In regards to animal meat, if we collectively switch to plant based options, we literally strangle the means for the animal industry to pollute. It’s a form of direct action that anyone can partake in. Even just opting for chicken instead of red meat, if done collevtively, would result in substantial decreases in emissions.
I think the zeitgeist is beginning to shift, and we can help move it along with our own collective effort, and leading by example in our own communities (online or offline).
I don’t disagree that stopping the majority of emissions at their source (corporations) is the ultimate end goal, but as you say, we don’t know when that will happen. Could be in 3 years, could be in a decade or two.
I’m advocating we do what we can to buy us (and especially the poorest and most vulnerable populations) a little more time while we wait for that major reckoning to happen. Besides, if we’re collectively unwilling to even give up a little bit of beef in favor of plants or chicken, that doesn’t bode well for us when the time comes to make much bigger sacrifices to take on those big polluters, and capitalism itself.
If we make society more egalitarian someday, we’ll still ultimately have to rely on people becoming informed of what we need to do to save the planet from climate change, and then enact those things in their lives willingly themselves. There’s no real reason we shouldn’t be a part of that change now, rather than wait.
And I do want to emphasize how incredibly good Impossible meat is as an extremely convenient drop-in replacement for ground beef or steak bites. It often goes on sale, which brings the price down to be fairly comparable to animal meat. If you haven’t tried it yet, I highly suggest picking some up when you see some on sale, it makes the transition away from animal meat much much easier, as it allows you to continue to use all of your existing recipes. Quorn is another really solid option that’s comparable in price to animal meat, and when cooked with some beef or chicken stock, tastes very, very similarly to real meat in a recipe.
That’s not how I would describe it. Change always starts with a personal realization. And what animal agriculture does to our soil, rivers and atmosphere is not right, do you agree?
We could reforest close to 80% of agricultural land, thats an area the size of Africa, and return it to nature. Forests cool our climate, breathe in co2. Do you want this? It is already happening and you can be part of it if you decide to buy chickpeas and lentils instead of animal tissue. It’s one step closer to a solution. A small step, but the right thing to do.
But a few thousand people going vegan isn’t going to shut down the meat industry. And we don’t have time for a gradual shift in human consumption trends.
We need drastic changes ten years ago or humanity is fucked.
Numbers are hard to measure but we have at least 80 million vegans on the planet, plus 1,5 billion vegetarians. This is not “a few thousand”. A decade ago, veganism was considered a cult, now we have Veganuary and my health insurance recommends a “Planetary Health Diet” (to not scare people by saying the v-word). This movement is much bigger than you make it sound.
And again, I agree: There is destruction and exploitation wherever you look closely, it’s overwhelming. I’m all for drastic changes, and fast! This includes you, Sir Kevin, to acknowledge that the diet you learned from your parents needs to be addressed. You don’t have to be perfect, I’m not, but please don’t ignore your responsibility in this. It’s the easiest difference you can make.
So you’d stop eating meat when billionaires stop flying private jets? Then both of you will conveniently continue until our biosphere collapses.
To me, this sounds like a protective claim while you’re just as greedy, entitled and reckless as the flying billionaire, you just have fewer opportunities and resources. Contributing to something as evil as global animal agriculture while ignoring the numerous alternatives is something everyone has to take responsibility for, no?
You completely missed my point. I actively try to reduce my carbon footprint, but I will not jump through 16 extra hoops to save a tiny fraction of CO2, while Taylor swift fly’s to fucking space. You can not blame the entirety of climate change onto the single individual. Change is especially needed in terms of abolishing billionaires and it also has to come from the politics.
An example: In my hometown village there is basically zero public transit. There is some usable, but its main use is for people who aren’t in a rush and dont have that much other things that might interfere. If I want to drive to the next city without using a car it takes me about 1h, which includes about 10 minutes with riding your bike to the next village. This bus drives every two hours so a trip to the next city to do some stuff takes at least 2-3 hours and depending on what you have/want to do there it can quickly become a 4-5 hour trip. Under these circumstances I Am usually going to drive there by car (which takes about 20-25 minutes). Does it emit more CO2? Of course it does. Can I easily sacrifice 3-5 hours for something that can be done in 1-2? Usually not.
The thing is, we’re at a point where any reduction or slowing of Co2 is a victory, and can at the very least buy us (especially the populations most effected) a little bit more time to get our collective shit together against the big polluters.
But we don’t know when that time will come, so we need to do as much as we can until then. We know the billionaires planes will continue, but we can at the very least prevent some of our own emissions from compounding with them. Us doing our bit is not negated by the billionaires not joining in with us. It’s not fair, but the climate doesn’t care about fair, it cares about total emissions.
So let’s chip in collectively to slow things down, even if only slightly, until we can slow it down a lot. :)
Youre right, but each of us as an individual only has limited options. If politicians and billionaires dont want to take on climate change we sadly can’t do that much against it (except trying to influence politicians as a collective).
And its of course always a matter of money. If I dont have the money for a more climate friendly lifestyle, theres not that much you can do about it.
There are quite a few options we can do that either cost nothing to do, or even save money compared to the higher emission option.
All of these combined will drastically lower your emissions. As an individual it wouldn’t impact much, but done collectively, it can make a genuine difference. I can at least vouch that you’d be joining in with me :p
You’re picking a water bottle out of a landfill and calling it a victory. If it makes you feel less powerless by all means, you do you. But there are a thousand corporations, each with a fleet of dump trucks adding to it every hour.
As an individual, it’s a drop in the ocean, yes. But done collectively at scale, those drops become a meaningful difference. In regards to animal meat, if we collectively switch to plant based options, we literally strangle the means for the animal industry to pollute. It’s a form of direct action that anyone can partake in. Even just opting for chicken instead of red meat, if done collevtively, would result in substantial decreases in emissions.
You’re not wrong but getting everyone to collectively do anything is damn near impossible without laws or maybe shame to enforce it.
Alternatively, we can do something about the corporations that are doing the best majority of the polluting in the first place.
Admittedly the later option, under the current regime, would require measures that most people don’t seem to be comfortable with yet.
I think the zeitgeist is beginning to shift, and we can help move it along with our own collective effort, and leading by example in our own communities (online or offline).
I don’t disagree that stopping the majority of emissions at their source (corporations) is the ultimate end goal, but as you say, we don’t know when that will happen. Could be in 3 years, could be in a decade or two.
I’m advocating we do what we can to buy us (and especially the poorest and most vulnerable populations) a little more time while we wait for that major reckoning to happen. Besides, if we’re collectively unwilling to even give up a little bit of beef in favor of plants or chicken, that doesn’t bode well for us when the time comes to make much bigger sacrifices to take on those big polluters, and capitalism itself.
If we make society more egalitarian someday, we’ll still ultimately have to rely on people becoming informed of what we need to do to save the planet from climate change, and then enact those things in their lives willingly themselves. There’s no real reason we shouldn’t be a part of that change now, rather than wait.
And I do want to emphasize how incredibly good Impossible meat is as an extremely convenient drop-in replacement for ground beef or steak bites. It often goes on sale, which brings the price down to be fairly comparable to animal meat. If you haven’t tried it yet, I highly suggest picking some up when you see some on sale, it makes the transition away from animal meat much much easier, as it allows you to continue to use all of your existing recipes. Quorn is another really solid option that’s comparable in price to animal meat, and when cooked with some beef or chicken stock, tastes very, very similarly to real meat in a recipe.
That’s not how I would describe it. Change always starts with a personal realization. And what animal agriculture does to our soil, rivers and atmosphere is not right, do you agree?
We could reforest close to 80% of agricultural land, thats an area the size of Africa, and return it to nature. Forests cool our climate, breathe in co2. Do you want this? It is already happening and you can be part of it if you decide to buy chickpeas and lentils instead of animal tissue. It’s one step closer to a solution. A small step, but the right thing to do.
I do agree.
But a few thousand people going vegan isn’t going to shut down the meat industry. And we don’t have time for a gradual shift in human consumption trends.
We need drastic changes ten years ago or humanity is fucked.
Numbers are hard to measure but we have at least 80 million vegans on the planet, plus 1,5 billion vegetarians. This is not “a few thousand”. A decade ago, veganism was considered a cult, now we have Veganuary and my health insurance recommends a “Planetary Health Diet” (to not scare people by saying the v-word). This movement is much bigger than you make it sound.
And again, I agree: There is destruction and exploitation wherever you look closely, it’s overwhelming. I’m all for drastic changes, and fast! This includes you, Sir Kevin, to acknowledge that the diet you learned from your parents needs to be addressed. You don’t have to be perfect, I’m not, but please don’t ignore your responsibility in this. It’s the easiest difference you can make.