The murders sparked protests in Messina, Rome and other Italian cities, including Bologna, on Wednesday night. Further events are planned on Thursday.
In March, Giorgia Meloni’s government approved a draft law which for the first time introduced a legal definition of femicide in criminal law, punishing it with life in prison while increasing sentences for crimes including stalking, sexual violence and “revenge porn”.
The law followed the strong public reaction to the killing of Giulia Cecchettin, a 22-year-old student who was murdered by her former boyfriend, Filippo Turetta, in November 2023. Turetta was sentenced to life in prison in December.
Extreme punitive measures from the police and carceral organs of the state will not solve misogynistic violence. I’m glad people are fired up about the problem but this is the wrong approach. It’s been tried 1000 times for other things and it never works.
This
For a country like Italy, it will also require a cultural shift. I know they love their macho style hombres but that comes with a downside. I dunno, start at schools perhaps, where you can teach children from little to big on how they should interact together?
The exact same goes for Mexico
But it works well for public opinion, which is what politicians care about most, unfortunately
Italy probably has a different culture. Maybe it will work there, or they’ll learn the hard way.
But it will take the people who commit violence against women off the street. There are times when prison is not about rehabilitation its simply about removing danger.
Isolation is the one part of the carceral system that does have some effect, but I don’t think it’s the best way to achieve even that part.
I guess I don’t know the previous situation in Italy with regards to this issue. Was there a large number of people getting caught for these offenses and then released? Because killing someone and locking them up for 20 years is basically just as good from the perspective of separating victim and offender. It would be better to focus on consistent investigation and capture than on harsher penalties.
Or on programs that work to prevent violence in the first place. But we would only pursue those if we cared more about helping potential victims than about hurting offenders. That doesn’t seem to be the priority for most people.
They’re not looking to prevent violence they’re looking to isolate violence.
Prison has never and will never be a deterrence
This meme about prison being for “rehabilitation” needs to go the way of the dodo.
Life isn’t all sunshine and rainbows, kids. Sometimes the only way to stop somebody from doing something bad is to threaten them with, gasp, a punishment.
Sad this needs to be spelled out for most of you, but it really puts into perspective the kind of person that frequents these forums.
I’m just glad most of you don’t have a greater impact on the world.
So murdering people hasn’t been met with punishment in Italy before? That’s news to me.
Of course it has. I seriously doubt that these murderers were calculating their prison sentence and telling themselves "Oh, if I only get 15 years in prison, that’s not too bad. "
If the goal of prison isn’t to turn criminals into better citizens, then why not put all prisoners in a hard labor camp?
That’s slavery.
You were the one saying that prisons should be harsher in the first place. 🙄
Beware of the monkey’s paw.
It is legal for prisoners to be enslaved - perhaps you missed that little gotcha in the amendment.
We weren’t talking about what is legal.
I’m going to ignore you now. You people are insufferable.
“It is often said ‘not all men’. But they are always men.” Elena, sister of 22-year-old Italian Giulia Cecchettin who was brutally murdered by her former boyfriend.
That’s a very hyperbolic statement, and studies suggest about a quarter of spousal murders are committed by women. Closer to 3 in 8 in America.
When you say “studies suggest” whose studies are you referring to? Are these peer reviewed studies? I find your “facts” hard to believe at face value.
First, I love how you got upvotes for saying, “I didn’t bother even trying to find any evidence before posting.” But that’s not on you.
Second, murders are usually followed up on in the developed world, at least to some degree.
Here’s a BBC article. 20% in the UK (I found other regions with higher amounts, but I’m okay with this one). Note also that we are talking about something that is incredibly unlikely. 30,000 deaths worldwide per year of women in relationships by their partners. Assuming half of adult women worldwide are in relationships and noting there are about 6 billion adults gives 1.5 billion women in relationships. Note that the country with the highest rate of singles for both sexes is at 25%, so this is pretty conservative. That is a 2 in a million chance per year. Assuming women are in relationships for 60 years because, why not, puts your risk at 120 in a million of being killed by a partner over your lifetime. That is about 1.2 in 10,000, which is about 10 times as likely as dying from general anesthetic.
So now that we’ve determined that 1.2 in 10,000 men are killing their partners, and I will happily acknowledge that domestic violence is much more prevalent as long as you acknowledge that depending on region, 40% of victims of spousal violence are men (279000÷(432000+279000)), why would we waste our time targeting men for awareness of spousal violence when most men aren’t doing it and a significant part of the people who are doing it aren’t men?
3 out of 8 is a weird way to present a static. Kinda a red flag for spotting anyone trying to push a narrative. There’s more than enough data on this to present information in solid percentages or when dealing with population numbers of a society in the millions to billions people in base 10 numbers. 1:10, 1:100, 1:1000… 3 out of 8?! Like what was your sample size? 8?!
Little odd of course, but not the worst way to try to illustrate more than 1/4 but not 1/2… Which seems to be in the ballpark of the number he mentioned. If 40% of spousal murders are committed by women it fair to say it’s not “always men”, but it is more than half but less that 3/4.
This is about Italy, not America. Social norms and mores differ.
Well, I guess if only one in four of these “always men” are women, that doesn’t count.
Of course it’s not all men, but there are enough men who kill women for no reason that it’s a problem … especially when the ‘good’ men stand around and do nothing to stop it.
If you don’t want to be lumped in with all men, good for you. Then say something when men start making dumb blonde jokes, or kid around about beating women until the listen/obey.
That’s a big leap… Dumb blonde to beating women.
While studiously ignoring 25% of the problem. Gotcha.
Using whataboutism to studiously ignore the issue at hand.
It truly is ‘all men’ when it comes to a discussion about femicide.
Just FYI, you’re arguing with someone that agrees with you.
I agree with you too, but only about your main point. Not “all men.”
That assumption is the same logic as bigots and the very “men” you are trying to chastize. Let me just rephrase what you wrote to make my point:
It truly is ‘all women’ when it comes to a discussion about being involuntarily celibate. Using whataboutism to studiously ignore the issue at hand.
You literally are using the same arguments that incels do to justify their hatred and punishment of women.
Just changing the who and what in that argument does not make it a logically sound one.
Anecdotally, I’m a man, and one that has literally saved a woman from being arrested for assault because I recognized she was having an extreme bipolar manic episode, and not just “going crazy” like her female friends believed when they called the cops on her.
The belief our penis prevents us from acting humane is laughable bigotry.
If you want to make a scientific point, don’t follow it with unscientific insults.
So we have a problem that is done by a tiny minority of one demographic, and a third as many of the population that aren’t part of that demographic, yet you insist that demographic is the key factor in the problem at hand, and I’m supposed to believe I, who haven’t committed this act, am a part of the problem.
If you want to keep believing that the core issue is that men (or generally people with high testosterone) tend to be more violent, is the key issue, and not that there are people of either gender who wish to treat others as objects and believe their feelings are more important than other people’s well-being, well, who am I to stop you? But you might find it easier to teach people that other people have agency and as many rights as them than you will trying to teach men that being a man is a problem. And you might reach 33% more people at risk of engaging in spousal violence than if you just look at men.
As for the whataboutism, I’m speaking of spousal violence, in which you and the person in the article seem to believe only happens in one direction in any significant amount.
The hell? You’re the one who was saying “it’s always men,” then when presented with evidence to the contrary, you scream “whataboutism”?
You’re not helping your cause here, bud.
Are there usually good men standing around at the scene of a murder?
especially when the ‘good’ men stand around and do nothing to stop it.
Here it is, guys. They want to make it our fault that other people commit murder.
It’s possible for it to always be men yet still not apply to all men.
Shocker, I know.
Some of these people need a remedial English course.
Some of these people probably said that in Italian anyways.
And I don’t expect that kind of nuance from someone whose sister just got murdered.
OP, just trying to understand and learn. Why are all your posts fear and rage inducing? All your posts are less than two days old and all of them are articles about problematic topics.
All my posts are not 2 days old, and I posted a good news story today.
https://sh.itjust.works/post/35507046
I appreciate your posts, keep it up!
Thanks. :)
I was hoping lemmy would be free of these misogynistic mobs. I think these guys just proved your point. They presented no evidence or peer reviewed studies back up their made up facts. Femicide and rape culture is a huge problem worldwide. This mobbing of women online is part of the problem.
I saw only one user in this thread try to respond with an unspecified “studies say”. How is that a “mob”?
I’ve seen men enable violence against women my entire life. Bye Felicia
