Trouble is, trials are rare. About 94 percent of felony convictions at the state level and about 97 percent at the federal level are the result of plea bargains.
Plea bargains are due process. In order to expedite them, prosecutors throw the kitchen sink at every case so that IF you go to trial you’re “looking at” 30 years to life without parole for bumping into a cop. The plea, then, is misdemeanor jaywalking, $1000 fine, six months probation and you sleep at home tonight.
Yeah, its fucked up, many parts of it. But that doesn’t deny what the OP image is saying. Saying 90% of trials don’t get due process is incorrect. Firstly, because trials are essentially the definition of due process, but also the link (which is very good) does not say that.
They are not, they exist solely and explicitly to circumvent the “due process of law” particularly the 6th and 7th amendments.
How does a plea bargain remove the defendant’s right to legal counsel or a trial? It does neither of those things. Yes, it’s used erroneously by prosecutors and that’s a huge problem, but the accused gets counsel even if they can’t pay for it and the trial is always an option.
If you’re saying plea bargains are designed to intimidate people into not going to trial, yes that’s true, but that’s not the same thing as circumventing an amendment. That’s not the same thing at all.
No. Plea bargains are due process. It is far from perfect, ideal, or even good. But the seventh amendment isn’t a novel-sized book, so they left some things to our society’s interpretation, and we’re fucking it up bigly.
~90% of trials don’t get due process.
That’s not what that says. It says:
Plea bargains are due process. In order to expedite them, prosecutors throw the kitchen sink at every case so that IF you go to trial you’re “looking at” 30 years to life without parole for bumping into a cop. The plea, then, is misdemeanor jaywalking, $1000 fine, six months probation and you sleep at home tonight.
Yeah, its fucked up, many parts of it. But that doesn’t deny what the OP image is saying. Saying 90% of trials don’t get due process is incorrect. Firstly, because trials are essentially the definition of due process, but also the link (which is very good) does not say that.
The core of our disagreement is this:
They are not, they exist solely and explicitly to circumvent the “due process of law” particularly the 6th and 7th amendments.
Yes, and the fact that isn’t viewed as the blatant coercion it is, and a blatant violation of the 5th amendment, is part of the problem.
How does a plea bargain remove the defendant’s right to legal counsel or a trial? It does neither of those things. Yes, it’s used erroneously by prosecutors and that’s a huge problem, but the accused gets counsel even if they can’t pay for it and the trial is always an option.
If you’re saying plea bargains are designed to intimidate people into not going to trial, yes that’s true, but that’s not the same thing as circumventing an amendment. That’s not the same thing at all.
De jure vs de facto. From the standpoint of a legal fiction you’re not wrong, however an option made under duress isn’t really an option.
Do you also argue that homelessness doesn’t exist due to squatters rights?
No. Plea bargains are due process. It is far from perfect, ideal, or even good. But the seventh amendment isn’t a novel-sized book, so they left some things to our society’s interpretation, and we’re fucking it up bigly.