These are the top comments, and there is many more. I thought this is about Europe. Is this community (sp.?) being brigaded?
The problem is that people is unable to find where to put their despair (in this case, support for Palestine) to real and concrete action. So, instead of joining Red Cross or something, they come here to fight the moderation team (i.e. calling us Nazis or assuming we support EU nations giving weapons to a state that’s been accused of genocide). This is because we happened to draw a line as to “how” you should criticize Zionism.
- anzo
Idk, this smells like bait to me. I cant see why it shouldnt be posted about?
I usually don’t post stuff about Israel or the Gaza war because I don’t know enough about it to have an informed opinion, but when EU diplomats gets shot at, that’s news that’s related to Europe imho.
And no, just because I don’t have an informed opinion doesn’t mean I support either side in the conflict. I do however would like the killing of civilians to stop.
EU diplomats gets shot at
There’s a big difference between “warning shots in the air” and “getting shot at”, isn’t there?
Israel claims “warning shots”. Israel has been lying about countless attacks. For instance having brutally massacred 15 medics including executions at short range, where all of the claims later fell apart thanks to video evidence.
However this brutal murder apparently neither moved European countries seriously, nor did it move any relevant part of Israels society to stop this kind of acts.
When you are talking about diplomats, very little.
Because there was a huge issue between feddit users and anti-Israel folks and some people are trying to initiate more conflict. Just fucking ban anything about Israel/Palestine in c/Europe!
Yes, it seems that this community is being brigaded. There are a lot of posts on other Lemmys about the feddit.org announcement and it looks like there are people coordinating posting/voting here. It’s kind of obvious when on every Israel/Palestine post multiple people from other instances show up on our small german instance who never posted here and start spreading the most blatant propaganda nonsense.
So yeah, we should totally do a kind of pause for Israel related content. If not, this community will become “European politicians react to something happening in the middle east” and “Some protest is going on about the situation in the middle east in a european city”. And there will be massive fights in the comments.
European countries, especially Germany and the UK are mayor supporters of Israel and the support went on as the genocidal intent was made louder and louder by the Israeli government.
The UN says that within the next days 14,000 babies will be killed by starvation through the total aid blockade and hundreds of thousands of people are on the brink of starvation.
Again European countries support this or remain inactive about it. Suggesting now to “pause content” is quite unhinged. People are being subjected to the most heinous crimes and the only thing that can achieve a change is to keep up pressure, which starts by keeping to talk about it.
Instead demanding silence is morally wrong.
As many fights there are in here. We should just refrain from posting about Israel and Palestine in c/Europe.
Again European countries support this or remain inactive about it.
https://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/en/newsroom/news/e3-gaza-2714878
It really doesn’t help the case when people say stuff like “Germany supports the genocide”. Not doing enough to stop it? Easy to argue. Not opposing, or even supporting? That’s slander.
Germany kept sending arms to Israel. Among other things outgoing chancellor Scholz and his coalition had approved another 100 million € of weapons to Israel as late as October 2024.
The current chancellor announced that he wants Netanyahu to come to Germany and that he would find a way around the ICC arrest warrant, aka defy the rules based international order to host a suspected war criminal.
Just last week Germanies president was shaking hands with Netanyah in Israel. Germany is the only country siding with Israel in the genocide case at the ICJ. Germany delayed the ICC proceedings against Netanyahu, Gallant, Sinwar and Deif and Hanye with ridiculous arguments in their notes to the court. Just yesterday the German government in their press conference said that it was an “important and good step” that Israel allowed 9 trucks into Gaza. 9 trucks as the minimum to end starvation are 500 trucks a day.
Germany continues to support Israel financially, diplomatically and with weapons. The lip services are worthless, as the actions speak continued support.
Germany is not going to play the bad cop someone else will have to take up that mantle. You know exactly why. No, not what you think, but as long as Germany stays a good cop the Israeli left still has an ally, is able to exert political pressure.
Among other things outgoing chancellor Scholz and his coalition had approved another 100 million € of weapons to Israel as late as October 2024.
Weapons exports were halted for a long time, most of those 100m aren’t weapons but military goods (say, helmets or replacement parts for radars), Germany has demanded a pledge from Israel to only use it for actions compatible with international law. I know how that sounds, I know what you think about it: “Oh, interesting, they’re setting a trap”. (That is what you thought, didn’t you?).
It’s not like Israel wouldn’t be able to produce all the weapons they need to turn the whole of Palestine into mulch on their own, btw. Germany basically does this out of the recognition that Hezbollah etc. exist and would exploit Israeli weakness. The situation cannot be solved with economical pressure, that’d be pissing in the wind. At worst, you’d accelerate Israel’s slide into complete fascism with command economy, arresting the opposition, and everything. Noone would be helped by that.
The current chancellor announced that he wants Netanyahu to come to Germany and that he would find a way around the ICC arrest warrant,
Not going to happen that’s just Merz being impulsive, running his mouth. There’s no legal way for them to do it short of leaving the ICC which is a political impossibility.
Just last week Germanies president was shaking hands with Netanyah in Israel.
Anniversary of 60 years of diplomatic relations, it had to be done. Why, pray tell, did the presidents visit the other country, and not the prime minister / chancellor? Would’ve been appropriate to do a president + prime minister combination at such a big anniversary. You tell me.
Germany delayed the ICC proceedings against Netanyahu, Gallant, Sinwar and Deif and Hanye with ridiculous arguments in their notes to the court.
Defence attorneys doing defence attorney things, they want to be sure they’re in the loop and have access. And before I hear “Israel can defend themselves” no they can’t, they’re only making things worse for themselves as they believe their own propaganda. And btw can you explain what practical impact the “delay” has. The warrants are still out, they’re still not in custody.
Just yesterday the German government in their press conference said that it was an “important and good step” that Israel allowed 9 trucks into Gaza. 9 trucks as the minimum to end starvation are 500 trucks a day.
It is a good step. It is also completely insufficient, yes. Which is why they also said:
As humanitarian donors, we have two straightforward messages for the Government of Israel: allow a full resumption of aid into Gaza immediately and enable the UN and humanitarian organisations to work independently and impartially to save lives, reduce suffering and maintain dignity.
but as long as Germany stays a good cop the Israeli left still has an ally, is able to exert political pressure.
The Israeli left, who is persecuted in Germany, for instance by forcing Omri Boehm out of the Buchenwald liberation commemoration. Also “good cops” dont hand weapons to mass murder suspects.
Germany has demanded a pledge from Israel to only use it for actions compatible with international law. I know how that sounds, I know what you think about it: “Oh, interesting, they’re setting a trap”. (That is what you thought, didn’t you?).
It is more like “give me a pinky promise and i trust you. Just let me out of responsibility”. Also that radar is used to facilitate bomb and drone strikes. It doesn’t matter if it is not the explosive part of a weapon system that is delivered. Any military or dual use good is complicity.
It’s not like Israel wouldn’t be able to produce all the weapons they need to turn the whole of Palestine into mulch on their own, btw.
Except they didn’t because they couldn’t and mostly relied on foreign military aid. but even if they had the production capacities, they would need the raw materials. These again facilitate complicity.
Germany basically does this out of the recognition that Hezbollah etc. exist and would exploit Israeli weakness.
The Hezbollah that was pressured into a ceasefire through a heavy bombing campaign on Lebanon killing thousands of people at the time these new shipments were announced?
Also pick one. Either Israel can make all the stuff themselves or they need help. Both at the same time isnt possible.
Anniversary of 60 years of diplomatic relations, it had to be done.
No. Shaking hands with a wanted war criminal never has to be done. See Putin not being visited for the 80 years end of WW2. Unless you want Putin to be visited and his hands shook?
And btw can you explain what practical impact the “delay” has. The warrants are still out, they’re still not in custody.
Every month of earlier pressure means earlier sanctions means earlier end to the atrocities, means hundreds if not thousands or tens of thousands of people killed.
It is also completely insufficient, yes.
As has been all responses to German demands for the past two years. Remaining on the side of just making demands without exerting real pressure means to remain apathic to the atrocities committed at best, but very often complicit.
It is also completely insufficient, yes.
As has been all responses to German demands for the past two years. Remaining on the side of just making demands without exerting real pressure means to remain apathic to the atrocities committed at best, but very often complicit.
Ok, let’s game this out: Germany halts all weapons exports to Israel, the EU sanctions Israel into oblivion. What happens? The US quadruple down, Israeli fascists take the opportunity and wrap up the last Israeli in their victim narrative (“see we told you they’re all antisemites they want us dead”), leading to the fascists reigning with complete impunity. Commence mulching of Palestine. And all that because the adults decided to leave the room.
I would also very much like to live in a different world. In a world where simple, moral acts result in simple, moral, results. But that ain’t the world we’re living in.
Save your breath when it comes to Germany, if you want to change the equation focus on the US. One of the two would like to build skyscrapers on the Gaza beachfront to make some quick bucks, the other’s reaction to that is “WTF dude”.
Also pick one. Either Israel can make all the stuff themselves or they need help. Both at the same time isnt possible.
Turning Palestine into mulch is much easier done than defending against incursions by actual armies. Starving Palestine is even easier, and no amount of not sending weapons will prevent Israel from doing that.
EU makes full sanctions -> bans all ships carrying military and dual use goods from entering ports -> Option A Israel stops. Option B, EU countries agree on a military mission to force an aid corridor into Gaza by Sea. If Israel attacks, Nato article 5.
The idea that Israel would hold back and the US willing to double down and ramp up support and Israel somehow listening to the EU while doing the exact opposite of what is demanded is absurd. If the EU would get its shit together, the US and Israel would stand alone. The EU could get access to the surrounding countries and exert pressure to block US influence. Then the US would have to decide to go to WW3 against the EU to protect Israel? This wont happen.
This is appeasement nonsense. And it is in no way representing “adult” politics. Appeasement didnt work with South Africa. Appeasement didnt work before. Appeasement doesn’t work with Russia. Appeasement never works with fascists. The only thing that stops them is to take away any support they have.
And time is running out. We are looking at hundreds of thousands if not millions of people being genocided by starvation this year. There is nothing “adult” about watching a crime and not doing anything to stop it.
Ok, let me propose a theory:
- We know that Hamas started this war
- We know that not only Hamas attacked Israel, but that other militias in the region attacked to - Hisbollah, the Houtis etc.
- We know that all those are closely affiliated with Iran and that they are coordinating with Teheran. It’s unthinkable that Hamas would act without consulting with Iran first
- We know that Iran and Russia are allies
- Both Russia and Iran had big problems in 2023: Russia was (and still is) stuck in Ukraine, waging a bloody “3 days operation”. Iran had massive pro democracy protests after Mahsa Aminis was murdered by the police
In this context Hamas stages its attack and the worlds eyes switch from Iran and Ukraine to Gaza. There is no news reporting from Ukraine anymore, everybody talks about Gaza. People were voting for fucking Trump because of Bidens Israel politics. The global left is fighting itself due to Gaza while the global right is winning everywhere. And there are lots of accounts around that are simply trolling.
And that totally is the playbook someone like Putin is using. Don’t be a useful idiot.
Ok, let me propose a theory:
- We know that Netanyahu deliberately supported Hamas funding to prevent Palestinian unity and block a two-state solution
- We know that defense stocks jumped after October 7 - Lockheed Martin bounced over 12% and raked in profits from the $17.9 billion in military aid flowing to Israel, and the $61 billion for Ukraine
- We know that all major powers had big problems in 2023: Netanyahu had 38% approval and 76% wanted him to resign, Putin was stuck in Ukraine, Biden faced declining ratings
- We know that Netanyahu’s coalition would have lost 11 seats in September 2023 polls and hundreds of thousands were protesting his judicial reforms
In this context the timing was perfect for everyone’s domestic problems. Israel’s massive protests vanished overnight. US defense spending got bipartisan support for the first time in years. Every incumbent got their foreign crisis distraction while defense contractors cashed in.
The world’s eyes switched from Ukraine, domestic failures, and economic problems to picking sides in Gaza. Defense budgets exploded, energy markets destabilized profitably, and populations rallied around their governments while ignoring corruption at home.
And that totally is the playbook of disaster capitalism. Don’t be a useful idiot for the war profiteers. Demand your government oppose blank-check military spending, and support peace negotiations over arms deals.
How do the people being murdered by bombs and starvation and the announcements to ethnically cleanse Gaza or annihilate the population by the Israeli government fit into this?
Because you are insinuating that demanding to talk about and end the mass murder and ethnical cleansing of two million people means “being useful idiots” for Putin.
Also “Hamas started this war” is ignoring some 75 years of what happened before as well as the fact that Israel killed more than 200 Palestinians in 2023 before October. This ignores the ongoing ethnical cleansing and settlement occupation of the Westbank.
Finally Hezbollah for the longest time did not want go to full blown war with Israel, instead it only made token efforts and that front was ultimately escalated by Israel in September 2024 to distract from Gaza. If there would have been an actual coordination between Hezbollah, Hamas and Houthis, they would have all struck together and Oct. 7 and things would have looked very differently.
Your theory is wrong and your suggestion that opposing crimes against humanity would make one “useful idiots” is morally deeply wrong.
