I think it’s fine to look at general biological markers and categorize people for healthcare reasons. Most of the time being in the ballpark works for most people. Maybe in the future we can have some full body scan thing that picks up the optimal healthcare setup for each individual but in the meanwhile, we’ll go with what we got.
But that doesn’t have to have shit to do with their internal experience of themselves, or how the social environment should react to them. And I reiterate: “most people”. Meaning there’s going to be outliers and that’s okay, and they’ll need more individualized care. Being abnormal is normal.
That’s pretty much how it already works. It’s just that the pressure to make the “correct” choice is fucking crazy.
For some of us we didn’t know there was a choice
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Consider not posting in the future. Thanks.
This is a straight up childish answer. It’s basically “boooo! you dumb!”, what is that? Are you incapable of having a civil argument or do you simply refuse to have one?
Have I said anything irrational or hateful or incomprehensible?
Have I said anything irrational
Yes
or hateful
Yes
or incomprehensible?
Yes, yes, YES
Developmentally, babies don’t even have gender yet. Gender develops in the brain between the ages of 2 and 4 (and keeps developing until the end of puberty). I don’t think it’s developmentally appropriate to gender babies. All babies are nonbinary, and we should encourage children to choose a gender and pronouns as a rite of passage on their fourth birthday.
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted. I agree. Internal sense of gender develops later. If babies do have a gender identity, they can’t communicate it. We shouldn’t push gender expectations on babies.
Oh, it’s just the normal everyday cisheteropartiarchy burned into people’s brains why they’re downvoting Me. My suggestion goes outside their comfort zone, and they don’t know Me well enough to seriously consider what I’m saying, they just feel a negative emotional reaction to radical new ideas. Thinking new ideas is hard work, cognitively taxing, so they perceive My new ideas as a threat.
It would be even more interesting if humans were a mono-gendered (or effectively genderless…since everyone is the same) species.
With only 1% trans, I think if we’re just willing to ACCEPT when they tell us we got it wrong, apologize and leave it at that, that would be enough.
Is it possible that any of them ever got it wrong?
“Wrong” is probably not the best term for it. People’s understanding of their own identity can evolve over time, but their own assessment of their sense of self will always be the most accurate barometer to go by. Yes, some people detransition, but as others have stated they’re a small minority and ultimately that’s their decision to make whether it’s due to a change in how they identify or pressure from external forces.
But to the original commenter’s point, we should just allow people to be the masters of their own identity and meet them where they are at any given point. If that were the case, the idea of getting it “wrong” wouldn’t be a big deal at all, they could simply give us an update and the world keeps turning.
their own assessment of their sense of self will always be the most accurate barometer to go by.
Does this claim extend to people who are schizophrenic?
love the transphobia to ableism pipeline. Not a great look.
That’s a completely separate discussion. We’re talking about gender dysphoria, not schizophrenia. I hope you understand why people assume you’re a troll, because what is even the point of bringing that up in this context?
The amount of people who detransition is incredibly small compared to the overall trans population, and even then most people detransition because society didn’t accept them and battered them down until they gave up.
I take that as a yes, people can be wrong about themselves and who they think they are.
Edit: My bad. Nobody can ever be wrong about themselves or their interpretation of reality. Sorry.
People can be wrong about literally anything. That is not an excuse to say “fuck everyone else in this group.”
If you extend this argument, we shouldn’t believe what anyone tells us about absolutely anything because they might have made a mistake. Truly a great basis for human society.
People are wrong constantly about which career they’re best suited for but there isn’t a huge controversy about letting people choose that for themselves
Why would you presume that questioning someone’s beliefs would mandate to treat them like shit? What a bizarre worldview. Everyone deserves to be treated with kindness and respect, whatever they believe.
But your beliefs about the world do not dictate my beliefs about the world. That is surely not a hard concept to grasp?
Because there’s an explicit bias in your questioning. You wouldn’t question if I’m really cis-hetero, but you would question of I’m reeeeeeeeally gay or trans, even thought I’m sure there are more people who come up publicly as gay after having children than there are trans detransitioning.
This is the same as the maga mentality, where any man in a position of responsibility is accepted by default, but for women they demand justification for the role.
Isn’t there an explicit bias in your statement? I think it’s kind of relevant that the vast, vast majority of humans don’t even consider this stuff, because they take no issue with accepting that they are men or women. Is that wrong? Are people wrong to think that it’s ok to just be what you are? I genuinely don’t get it.
By far, by every metric, people are divided into men and women. There are rare exclusions, and those people should be treated just as well as everybody else. It doesn’t matter who they love or what they identify as. They are humans as every human, but it’s bizarre to demand that the totality of humanity abandon their intuitive instincts about masculinity and femininity.
I mean by your own argument, surely normal “CIS” people (whatever that means, I genuinely don’t know, I don’t keep up with ideological abbreviations) also have a right to be heterosexual women and men. Are they not allowed to believe what people have believed for literally millions of years? I find that offensive. I extend you the courtesy to believe to be whoever you wish, and I acquiesce. Surely you should be able to do the same, otherwise you’re just dictating your beliefs and demanding everybody accepts whatever it is that you say.
I think it would be more interesting if you could change at will. Wake up and pick your gender like you pick your outfit for the day.
Do you really think people just behave in certain, sex-related ways, because they’ve been told they’re this sex or the other? That sex-related behavioural differences don’t appear naturally (and are perhaps reinforced) but are just learned? Also, you definitely can “choose who you want to be”, lol, God made us all free-willed entities! But I cannot be a camel, nor can I be a non-material entity, or (ethnically) Nepali. We have degrees of freedom but we are fundamentally constrained by reality. If you deny reality (a very post modern, perspectivist approach that’s been very popular in the West for some decades now), then sure, you’re no longer constrained but then you lose the capacity to make any “objective” assertions about the world (because you denied an external reality).
Op isn’t talking about our current reality, they’re posing a hypothetical situation in which humans are born without sex and can choose
Not really, they just mentioned not having a “gender” assigned at birth, allowing you to remain legally sexually indeterminate until you pick a side, regardless of your bits and bobs. Or at least that’s how I read it.
How do you know you didn’t and you just happened to guess wrong? Like you were like oh “seems cool” then your neurons grew in mismatched.
How do we know anything at all? How do we know that we’re not all just living in an alien simulation and in fact are multidimensional dragons from some parallel universe?
It’s not really that it’s a choice to not be cis, but yeah, we shouldn’t assume people’s gender at all imho until they tell us themselves (and as children can’t tell us until they’re older don’t assume until they’re older), and even when they do it shouldn’t need to affect stereotypes or the way we grammatically refer to them or anything, just maybe what body they want to have and who can be attracted to them
Why would you trust anything someone says about themselves outright? What if they’re crazy? What if they’re lying? What if they’re wrong? Is that impossible, or does every person on Earth have perfect knowledge of themselves and their true selves at all times, and always speak the truth?
Why would you trust what someone else says about them rather than what they say about themself? If someone says they’re depressed, do you believe them, or do you need ‘objective proof’? Gender [dysphoria/euphoria] is the same, it’s an internal experience.
Do you agree that there are people who lie, or make up things for attention, or are wrong about their beliefs?
Yes but in the case of trans people, they’re almost never lying. Why should we disbelieve the majority of them on the off chance they might be lying? That’s the same attitude as wanting to take food away from people who need it just because someone might take advantage of the system
Yes to all three. But people who claim to be trans are rarely any of those, and scientific consensus shoes that trusting them generally leads to less harm than disbelieving them - especially as puberty blockers are fully reversible. If the adolescent is not trans, they can stop them and have their natural puberty continue as normal.
Let’s be real. Who would actually pick to have a penis?
Penis vs periods. That’s the ultimate battle.
Assuming there’s no major difference between men and women excluding their gender roles, I don’t get why would anyone want to reinforce the same system that oppresses them. Maybe it would be more effective to teach people that their gender has nothing to do with the person they are instead of pushing transgenderism to little children who can’t even conceptualize the concept of gender yet
“But you are transphobic heartless bastard monster etc etc etc” idgaf man a friend of mine died because of this. You’re playing with people’s life. If they really don’t like the gender they’re assigned at birth they can do that later in life when their brain is developed enough to make conscious choices. Transgender people are like 1% of the population and 99% of the population is cisgender, it makes no sense at all to do that considering it’s an incredibly small minority of people. If percentages were like 40% or people, that would have been understandable but psychological burden and straight up confusion is too large and the good intentions don’t justify the psychological burden
Can you please elaborate on how someone died “because of this” in the context of the rest of your message? I am genuinely curious, because 100% of stories I’ve heard of loss of life involving the concept of transgenderism has been teenagers/young adults committing suicide as a result of having their entire support system taken away overnight because they express themselves differently than their assigned gender at birth.
I would also challenge the concept of anyone “pushing” transgenderism on children, because I have seen exactly 0 evidence for this, but I also understand that “pushing” is a subjective term, not a scientific one.
This would only make sense if humans were some neutral sexless gender until they decided, which would have to be biologically enforced until the brain was sufficiently developed enough to choose.
There’s an episode of TNG where Data builds his child. He specifically says that he designed their base form to be sexless and speciesless, so that they could choose it for themselves.
If only the Trek fandom at large would acknowledge how unfathomably based that episode is. I swear there’s still a massive contingent of right wing boomers driving the narrative.
Yea that’s what I meant: If in a hypothetical alt-world, Humans were evolved so that biological sex is neutral for everyone.
But since “Gender” and “Sex” both translates to “性別” in Chinese, so when I first learned those English words, my brain kinda just mixed up both terms and encoded into my lexicon to mean the same thing.
In a lot of western early education they are used intechangably; which is where a lot of the local discourse stems from too. I think its because kids are taught that “sex” is naughty so they switch the terms for “ease” of lesson only to further confuse people. The american public school system atually does this with a lot of subjects.
