There is a humanist middle ground between domestic state censorship on the one hand and capture of the media and political agenda by American tech-giants on the other. Both can lead to totalitarianism.
I for one would be more concerned about the increasingly fascist foreign power seeking to meddle with political discourse and sovereignty in the EU.
One can find common ground here: anti-censorship; free speech. An enemy of your enemy is temporarily helpful; help which is important to further mutual aims.
There’s no legal right to free speach in Germany and possibly other countries in Europe as well and for a good reason. That would also include the freedom to insult others and smear their names- just to give an example.
There is however the freedom of opinion and that is without any restrictions - apart from collision with other constitutional rights. You may think whatever you like - you may not speak out all of the bs in your head or be free from repercussions of the bs you say.
Adopting the American obsession with ‘free-speech’ is not helpful imo.
For one, the term itself has become a right-wing dog-whistle that essentially means that billionaires can publicly say fucked up stuff without pushback by civil society, courts, etc. Their freedom of speech entails complete freedom from consequences for that speech.
Also, there is no such thing as free speech in a society of such structurally unequal footing. There are many, many reasonable and kind people all over the world speaking freely in daily life. But their reach is naturally limited to their local community.
They are being drowned out, however, by individuals such as Musk and Trump who have immense reach on both linear and social media and both actually own their own social media platforms. If they exercise their free speech, they sway international politics, the stock market, and slowly derode our shared sense of moral decency.
There is no free speech without independent and pluralistic media, rule of law and a liberal civil society.
So if you’re concerned about free speech, you should rage against centralized social media, consolidated media conglomerates, overexerted courts and public bureaucracies, and the general sense of despair and hopelessness that causes the public to become apolitical - and certainly don’t put your hope in the help of subversive far-right tinktanks financed by American fascists.
Also, on that note, you can be sure that those right-wing think tanks will not only promote ‘free speech’, whatever that means. They will fight European integration and the EU, social security, liberal democracy, LGBTQ rights, etc.
Just be specific: what european law do you think is holding back free speech? Just so we know what you really mean when you say that.
Let me give you an example of one that I think upholds free speech: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bans_on_Nazi_symbols by setting ground rules. Without rules, there is no free speech, it’s like the rules of the road: you need a common ground to even start to debate things productively.
“Authorities arrested a grandmother for silently holding a sign outside an abortion clinic that said “Coercion is a crime, here to talk, if you want.””
“…sentenced to 31 months in prison for what police said was an unacceptable post. In contrast, a child molester was sentenced to 21 months in the slammer.”
Do you find it acceptable for common speech to be a crime worse than child molestation?
that article is written so badly, do you call this journalism in the US? It’s a shit opinion piece rambling about missing free speech in UK without trying to find the context (and not even given sources).
She was arrested for doing the exact same thing (the act of holding a poster) another granny did a while back, who was also arrested, but the poster said she supports Palestine Action.
I guess you’ll say one is worthy of incarceration but the other isn’t?
Come on, that’s not serious journalism. It’s an opinion piece written by a notorious conservative American media oligarch. Cherry picking examples to support some kind of anti woke narrative. Pull the other one.
The UK is the European country that has most closely attempted to emulate American national conservative capitalism, and what a shit show that has been.
Does that matter when you radicalize conservatives by arresting people and publicly shaming them? And there are other “serious journals” discussing the same
When conservatives get in power, they will do the same to you. I’m not anti woke. It’s just important to realize that things need to calm down. There are other ways to get what you want. “Violence [arresting] is the last refuge of the incompetent.”
The UK has some fairly obvious issues with democracy, like when hundreds of XR and Palestine activists are being routinely imprisoned for exercising their right to assemble. Conservatives have been in power on the UK until very recently and these illiberal developments are their doing.
Steve Forbes is part of the national conservative oligarchy that has allowed those attacks on democracy to happen in the first place. I do think the source of information matters. Words are power, and his words are poison.
Extinction Rebellion has been criticised as alienating potential supporters.[28][29] Extinction Rebellion’s 2019 protests cost the Metropolitan Police an extra £7.5 million. Activists identifying with the movement have also defended causing property damage, such as smashing windows.[30][31] Extinction Rebellion has said such tactics are sometimes necessary and that they are careful not to put anyone at risk.[32] In a YouGov poll of 3,482 British adults conducted on 15 October 2019, 54% “strongly opposed” or “somewhat opposed” Extinction Rebellion’s actions of disrupting roads and public transport to “shut down London” in order to bring attention to their cause, while 36% “strongly supported” or “somewhat supported” these actions.
Yeah, ok, the grandma thing is wrong, not sure how a court would ever mishandle that. But the elon thing, you’d hope he’d hold himself to the same standard that he holds whole countries to.
There is a humanist middle ground between domestic state censorship on the one hand and capture of the media and political agenda by American tech-giants on the other. Both can lead to totalitarianism.
I for one would be more concerned about the increasingly fascist foreign power seeking to meddle with political discourse and sovereignty in the EU.
One can find common ground here: anti-censorship; free speech. An enemy of your enemy is temporarily helpful; help which is important to further mutual aims.
There’s no legal right to free speach in Germany and possibly other countries in Europe as well and for a good reason. That would also include the freedom to insult others and smear their names- just to give an example.
There is however the freedom of opinion and that is without any restrictions - apart from collision with other constitutional rights. You may think whatever you like - you may not speak out all of the bs in your head or be free from repercussions of the bs you say.
Sure, why not?
Libel is not legal in the US.
Adopting the American obsession with ‘free-speech’ is not helpful imo.
For one, the term itself has become a right-wing dog-whistle that essentially means that billionaires can publicly say fucked up stuff without pushback by civil society, courts, etc. Their freedom of speech entails complete freedom from consequences for that speech.
Also, there is no such thing as free speech in a society of such structurally unequal footing. There are many, many reasonable and kind people all over the world speaking freely in daily life. But their reach is naturally limited to their local community.
They are being drowned out, however, by individuals such as Musk and Trump who have immense reach on both linear and social media and both actually own their own social media platforms. If they exercise their free speech, they sway international politics, the stock market, and slowly derode our shared sense of moral decency.
There is no free speech without independent and pluralistic media, rule of law and a liberal civil society.
So if you’re concerned about free speech, you should rage against centralized social media, consolidated media conglomerates, overexerted courts and public bureaucracies, and the general sense of despair and hopelessness that causes the public to become apolitical - and certainly don’t put your hope in the help of subversive far-right tinktanks financed by American fascists.
Also, on that note, you can be sure that those right-wing think tanks will not only promote ‘free speech’, whatever that means. They will fight European integration and the EU, social security, liberal democracy, LGBTQ rights, etc.
Just be specific: what european law do you think is holding back free speech? Just so we know what you really mean when you say that.
Let me give you an example of one that I think upholds free speech: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bans_on_Nazi_symbols by setting ground rules. Without rules, there is no free speech, it’s like the rules of the road: you need a common ground to even start to debate things productively.
The UK is the most obvious: https://www.forbes.com/sites/steveforbes/2025/09/09/people-are-being-thrown-in-uk-prisons-over-what-theyve-said-online-can-free-speech-be-saved/
Examples from the article:
“Authorities arrested a grandmother for silently holding a sign outside an abortion clinic that said “Coercion is a crime, here to talk, if you want.””
“…sentenced to 31 months in prison for what police said was an unacceptable post. In contrast, a child molester was sentenced to 21 months in the slammer.”
Do you find it acceptable for common speech to be a crime worse than child molestation?
Edit: Added some quotes from the article
that article is written so badly, do you call this journalism in the US? It’s a shit opinion piece rambling about missing free speech in UK without trying to find the context (and not even given sources).
Arsehole granny was arrested for publicly harrassing people seeking medical treatment. Cry me a river.
She was arrested for doing the exact same thing (the act of holding a poster) another granny did a while back, who was also arrested, but the poster said she supports Palestine Action.
I guess you’ll say one is worthy of incarceration but the other isn’t?
Come on, that’s not serious journalism. It’s an opinion piece written by a notorious conservative American media oligarch. Cherry picking examples to support some kind of anti woke narrative. Pull the other one.
The UK is the European country that has most closely attempted to emulate American national conservative capitalism, and what a shit show that has been.
Does that matter when you radicalize conservatives by arresting people and publicly shaming them? And there are other “serious journals” discussing the same
https://apnews.com/article/britain-students-free-speech-guidelines-9df46d8ed3d621f9e83c93f4346e1cb8
When conservatives get in power, they will do the same to you. I’m not anti woke. It’s just important to realize that things need to calm down. There are other ways to get what you want. “Violence [arresting] is the last refuge of the incompetent.”
https://www.historynewsnetwork.org/article/german-town-pulls-one-over-on-neo-nazis
The UK has some fairly obvious issues with democracy, like when hundreds of XR and Palestine activists are being routinely imprisoned for exercising their right to assemble. Conservatives have been in power on the UK until very recently and these illiberal developments are their doing.
Steve Forbes is part of the national conservative oligarchy that has allowed those attacks on democracy to happen in the first place. I do think the source of information matters. Words are power, and his words are poison.
XR is extinction rebellion?
This from Wikipedia kind of gets at my point.
Yeah, ok, the grandma thing is wrong, not sure how a court would ever mishandle that. But the elon thing, you’d hope he’d hold himself to the same standard that he holds whole countries to.