I’m not sure what you’re getting at, my reasoning is consistant across both this and the linked comment; was that what you meant to link to? My entire point has been that generalizations are not inherengly universal, and the ones in the comic especially so. Which you appear to agree with? I’m genuinely confused.
That reasoning also runs counter to the greviances DamnedFurry was expressing with the comic.
And you’re expressing yet more fallacies, without establishing the applicability of those falacies to the situation. Nor are stereotypes a fallacy (what??), and neither is this a fallacy of composition or a faulty generalization.
However the implication that the existance of fallacies renders the conclusions of the comic invalid is a hilariously classic example of an argument from fallacy so there’s that…
Not in any way telling you what to do, but these dudes aren’t listening to any logical arguments that anyone here is making.
Feels like a lot of them don’t know that many women either, laughably. Maybe it’s due to living in the Bible belt for so long, but most of the women I know have run into this (comic) exact sort of guy.
Don’t worry, this is what passes as cathartic for me. The fish are all happily getting into the barrel and begging me to shoot them, it’s more fun that I’ve had in…
…
oh no, I’ve made myself sad.
The fallacy in the comment works with weaker generalizations, too.
Weaker generalizations are common: cardinals are red, car drivers stop at red lights, balls roll.
Likewise, men say X doesn’t pin down the level of generality: significant proportion suffices.
Concluding from the premises in the comment that a significant proportion of men say X & Y would be a formal fallacy: the respective proportions of X & Y may not overlap significantly or at all.
Alternatively, it’s a division fallacy to argue that since a significant proportion collectively say X & Y it follows that a significant proportion individually say X & Y.
From either statement follows the comic’s generalization: (a significant proportion of) men who say X are hypocrites or that they so often are as you put it.
Another restatement: it can be typically expected.
Due to the fallacies, the comic’s generalization doesn’t validly follow from the premises in the comment.
without establishing the applicability
No valid or strong evidence has been provided for the comic’s generalization: it’s either an unfounded assertion or a generalization drawn from inadequate evidence, which is called a faulty generalization.
yet more fallacies
Stereotyping fallacy exists and refers to treating overstatements as accurate generalizations of a whole group.
implication that the existance of fallacies renders the conclusions of the comic invalid
An argument from fallacy concludes the fallacy’s conclusion is false.
That didn’t happen here.
A fallacy indicates a problem in the argument, namely that it’s unsound.
Unsound arguments are a problem, since they fail to determine truth conclusively.
Nothing in the linked composition fallacy comment you responded to used words all or always. You kept assuming a universal generalization where it wasn’t indicated.
I was using “all” for brevity’s sake - as an illustrative example it was imprecise, but that is the goal of illustrative examples - the reasoning was sound, the wording was intentionally imprecise to prevent the reasoning getting lost in pages of verbiage. If that caused confusion I apologize, that was not my intent, but it seemed to be understood by most of the audience and by the person I was engaging with directly.
While your explanation of it’s mechanics is correct, the situation in the comic isn’t what the division fallacy describes. If a group, as in the comic, consists entirely of people who say X and that group expresses Y, at least one member of that group must (by an almost tautological application of the Pigeonhole Principle) say both X & Y. This is the claim damnedFurry was making, that nobody who says X also says Y (an argument which they later very respectfully dropped after they were shown evidence that their initial premise was fundamentally wrong).
Due to the fallacies, the comic’s generalization doesn’t validly follow from the premises in the comment.
Correct - the premises in the comment misrepresent those in the comic. They are giving a good example of a fallacy, but that fallacy is simply not present in the comic.
No valid or strong evidence has been provided for the comic’s generalization
Evidence it does not even need to provide if it’s, as for so many women, descriptive and not (as furry was attempting to claim) assertive.
On the other hand, wishful thinking, stereotyping, being superstitious, rationalizing, and having a poor sense of proportion also are sources of potential error and are included in the list below, though they would not be included in the lists of some researchers.
This argument is deductively valid, but it’s unsound because it rests on a false, stereotypical premise.
The source you provide does a very good job of explaining that it’s not a fallacy, it is an example of unsound reasoning.
An argument from fallacy concludes the fallacy’s conclusion is false. That didn’t happen here.
So then are you saying the conclusions of the comic (as drawn by damnfurry) are true? Because I would still disagree - the conclusions the comic makes are not the ones furry claims it’s making.
I’m not sure what you’re getting at, my reasoning is consistant across both this and the linked comment; was that what you meant to link to? My entire point has been that generalizations are not inherengly universal, and the ones in the comic especially so. Which you appear to agree with? I’m genuinely confused.
That reasoning also runs counter to the greviances DamnedFurry was expressing with the comic.
And you’re expressing yet more fallacies, without establishing the applicability of those falacies to the situation. Nor are stereotypes a fallacy (what??), and neither is this a fallacy of composition or a faulty generalization.
However the implication that the existance of fallacies renders the conclusions of the comic invalid is a hilariously classic example of an argument from fallacy so there’s that…
Not in any way telling you what to do, but these dudes aren’t listening to any logical arguments that anyone here is making. Feels like a lot of them don’t know that many women either, laughably. Maybe it’s due to living in the Bible belt for so long, but most of the women I know have run into this (comic) exact sort of guy.
Don’t worry, this is what passes as cathartic for me. The fish are all happily getting into the barrel and begging me to shoot them, it’s more fun that I’ve had in…
…
oh no, I’ve made myself sad.
I’ll tweak the comment & clarify here.
Nothing in the linked composition fallacy comment you responded to used words all or always. You kept assuming a universal generalization where it wasn’t indicated.
The fallacy in the comment works with weaker generalizations, too. Weaker generalizations are common: cardinals are red, car drivers stop at red lights, balls roll. Likewise, men say X doesn’t pin down the level of generality: significant proportion suffices.
Concluding from the premises in the comment that a significant proportion of men say X & Y would be a formal fallacy: the respective proportions of X & Y may not overlap significantly or at all. Alternatively, it’s a division fallacy to argue that since a significant proportion collectively say X & Y it follows that a significant proportion individually say X & Y.
From either statement follows the comic’s generalization: (a significant proportion of) men who say X are hypocrites or that they so often are as you put it. Another restatement: it can be typically expected.
Due to the fallacies, the comic’s generalization doesn’t validly follow from the premises in the comment.
No valid or strong evidence has been provided for the comic’s generalization: it’s either an unfounded assertion or a generalization drawn from inadequate evidence, which is called a faulty generalization.
Stereotyping fallacy exists and refers to treating overstatements as accurate generalizations of a whole group.
An argument from fallacy concludes the fallacy’s conclusion is false. That didn’t happen here.
A fallacy indicates a problem in the argument, namely that it’s unsound. Unsound arguments are a problem, since they fail to determine truth conclusively.
I was using “all” for brevity’s sake - as an illustrative example it was imprecise, but that is the goal of illustrative examples - the reasoning was sound, the wording was intentionally imprecise to prevent the reasoning getting lost in pages of verbiage. If that caused confusion I apologize, that was not my intent, but it seemed to be understood by most of the audience and by the person I was engaging with directly.
While your explanation of it’s mechanics is correct, the situation in the comic isn’t what the division fallacy describes. If a group, as in the comic, consists entirely of people who say X and that group expresses Y, at least one member of that group must (by an almost tautological application of the Pigeonhole Principle) say both X & Y. This is the claim damnedFurry was making, that nobody who says X also says Y (an argument which they later very respectfully dropped after they were shown evidence that their initial premise was fundamentally wrong).
Correct - the premises in the comment misrepresent those in the comic. They are giving a good example of a fallacy, but that fallacy is simply not present in the comic.
Evidence it does not even need to provide if it’s, as for so many women, descriptive and not (as furry was attempting to claim) assertive.
The source you provide does a very good job of explaining that it’s not a fallacy, it is an example of unsound reasoning.
So then are you saying the conclusions of the comic (as drawn by damnfurry) are true? Because I would still disagree - the conclusions the comic makes are not the ones furry claims it’s making.