First of all, I appreciate you ignoring my obviously stupid facetious insult. So I will give you a straight response in return.
Age does not matter in this case whatsoever. If you want to make an argument for health or mental acuity or something, I think that’s reasonable. I have no problem with the criticism of staying in office while old age deteriorates you, but plenty of people remain sharp well into their 90s and even 100s.
If you want to make the argument that we need to make more room for younger folks, I agree with that. I think we need to fix employment in general when it comes to age related discrimination, which applies to young and old alike. A formal system of apprenticeship and training in all fields is warranted, I think, and something similar can work in politics—but it is not a true vocation.
The whole workaholic culture you’re talking about doesn’t really apply to politics. It’s simply not the same as in other professions. These folks aren’t fetishizing work, they’re doing public service, and I mean as a concept; obviously right wingers aren’t doing any kind of “public service” by any reasonable definition.
Preventing people from taking office at 60 years old just because they might run for a different office later is authoritarian lunacy. This is truly ageist nonsense. The only thing that should matter is an ability to faithfully execute the duties of the office. If they are enfeebled, they need to retire. None of this Diane Feinstein nonsense where her staff was operating in her stead.
One of the things to keep in mind is that there’s a reason people have a “second life” as a politician. Sometimes as you get older, you gain a sense of duty to the community that raised you; sometimes it’s naked ambition. I’m not trying to make it sound noble, just that it’s not a career as such, and there’s a reason people come to politics late and stay late. I don’t think it’s a big deal. It’s part of an obsessive focus on identity. Nobody cares about Bernie Sanders because he’s a decent person.
The whole workaholic culture you’re talking about doesn’t really apply to politics. It’s simply not the same as in other professions.
I agree fully. In most other professions, a workaholic culture is not particularly harmful to anyone but the workaholic. An exception would be “management of laborers” where the workaholic is charged with directing the lives and livelihoods of rank and file workers. A more important exception is “politics”, where the workaholic is charged with legislating policy. It is in fields like these where workaholic culture is most damaging to all of society.
This is truly ageist nonsense.
I haven’t mentioned anything about health or mental acuity or enfeeblement. I haven’t mentioned anything about making room for the next generation. All those issues came from you. Don’t lay that “ageist” horseshit on me. Also don’t lay that “authoritarian lunacy” charge at me: I didn’t say she should be prevented from running. She shouldn’t run. It should be infeasible for her to run as a freshman state senator. Anyone who ever wants to be able to retire at a reasonable time in their lives should look at her proximity to retirement age and decide she is not the best option.
My position is “shares our values”. “Working yourself into the fucking grave” is not a value that should be shared or promoted in any way among our political representatives. We should be appalled at anyone of retirement age deliberately choosing to work for others. I happen to hold that particular value in rather high regard.
Sometimes as you get older, you gain a sense of duty to the community that raised you; sometimes it’s naked ambition.
And I have no problems whatsoever with a workaholic in a philanthropic or corporate role, or working for themselves. Most are still capable, many are still willling to work. But looking around my community, most are forced to work long past retirement age. They don’t get to retire on time (or sometimes at all) because the workaholic attitudes in our legislatures have not established a culture in which retirement is valued. They set the expectation for working into their 80s and 90s. They devalue retirement.
First of all, I appreciate you ignoring my obviously stupid facetious insult. So I will give you a straight response in return.
Age does not matter in this case whatsoever. If you want to make an argument for health or mental acuity or something, I think that’s reasonable. I have no problem with the criticism of staying in office while old age deteriorates you, but plenty of people remain sharp well into their 90s and even 100s.
If you want to make the argument that we need to make more room for younger folks, I agree with that. I think we need to fix employment in general when it comes to age related discrimination, which applies to young and old alike. A formal system of apprenticeship and training in all fields is warranted, I think, and something similar can work in politics—but it is not a true vocation.
The whole workaholic culture you’re talking about doesn’t really apply to politics. It’s simply not the same as in other professions. These folks aren’t fetishizing work, they’re doing public service, and I mean as a concept; obviously right wingers aren’t doing any kind of “public service” by any reasonable definition.
Preventing people from taking office at 60 years old just because they might run for a different office later is authoritarian lunacy. This is truly ageist nonsense. The only thing that should matter is an ability to faithfully execute the duties of the office. If they are enfeebled, they need to retire. None of this Diane Feinstein nonsense where her staff was operating in her stead.
One of the things to keep in mind is that there’s a reason people have a “second life” as a politician. Sometimes as you get older, you gain a sense of duty to the community that raised you; sometimes it’s naked ambition. I’m not trying to make it sound noble, just that it’s not a career as such, and there’s a reason people come to politics late and stay late. I don’t think it’s a big deal. It’s part of an obsessive focus on identity. Nobody cares about Bernie Sanders because he’s a decent person.
I agree fully. In most other professions, a workaholic culture is not particularly harmful to anyone but the workaholic. An exception would be “management of laborers” where the workaholic is charged with directing the lives and livelihoods of rank and file workers. A more important exception is “politics”, where the workaholic is charged with legislating policy. It is in fields like these where workaholic culture is most damaging to all of society.
I haven’t mentioned anything about health or mental acuity or enfeeblement. I haven’t mentioned anything about making room for the next generation. All those issues came from you. Don’t lay that “ageist” horseshit on me. Also don’t lay that “authoritarian lunacy” charge at me: I didn’t say she should be prevented from running. She shouldn’t run. It should be infeasible for her to run as a freshman state senator. Anyone who ever wants to be able to retire at a reasonable time in their lives should look at her proximity to retirement age and decide she is not the best option.
My position is “shares our values”. “Working yourself into the fucking grave” is not a value that should be shared or promoted in any way among our political representatives. We should be appalled at anyone of retirement age deliberately choosing to work for others. I happen to hold that particular value in rather high regard.
And I have no problems whatsoever with a workaholic in a philanthropic or corporate role, or working for themselves. Most are still capable, many are still willling to work. But looking around my community, most are forced to work long past retirement age. They don’t get to retire on time (or sometimes at all) because the workaholic attitudes in our legislatures have not established a culture in which retirement is valued. They set the expectation for working into their 80s and 90s. They devalue retirement.