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If you find “over/under” confusing, that’s probably because it’s misleading terminology.
You might find it more intuitive to think of this as “outside/inside”, meaning that each new loop is made by bringing the cable’s free end up to your stationary hand either outside (away from the already coiled cable) or inside (between the already coiled cable and itself) as it forms the new loop.
For anyone working on or around stages:
Most sane production companies standardise on over-under. Even if you find some other method superior (nothing is), you’ll get thrown out headfirst if you don’t follow the standard. Having a tech fuck around with a non-compliant cable during a changeover is far too risky.
Should be noted that there are special cases. For example, thicccc cables (i.e. 24ch analog multi) that have their own dedicated cases often go down in an 8 instead - easier to pull out and you can use a smaller case. Thank god for digital audio.
(Also, when using over-under correctly, you can throw the cable and it will land straight without any internal stresses winding it up like a spring)
The thicc boys are called, horse cocks, and not enough kids have worked with them these days ;p
For the record - analog multis can burn in hell. Nowadays, not running all of the show over Cat6 should be criminal.
Oh for sure, im glad the old tech is dieing, and don’t even get me started on moving heavy ass ancient toroidal amps ! Hahaha
There is a method similar to a sheep shank knot that is super useful for very long cables, and you can use the over/under method for making the required loops.
This is a 10/10 YSK tip. I haven’t had to untangle my headphones or charging cable after I learned this.
Here is the same trick with a smaller cable, probably more like what most of us are coiling up every day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fsvANAT3yg&t=160s (start at 2:40)
My phone decided to play this with AI generated German audio (which I can probably deactivate in Tubular, will check in a second). They must have trained the choice on freaking 90s infomercials, because it sounds cavils like the bad dubs we got on those.
If they are training on historical dubs, just be thankful you’re not Polish.
I’ve been wrapping headphones in a figure 8 across my devil’s horns, speaker first. The plug end can then be wrapped ~5 times around the crossover and pulled through the loop opposite the one it just came from. It accomplishes the same overall effect of reversing the twist each cycle. It also serves as a neat party trick to show people how they could have had better headphone management =(current year - 2015) years ago
And I love you too.
This technique is often referred to as “over, under” as apposed to the more common “over, over” because it prevents damage or cable memory from twisting in one direction. Frequently used in the audio/video industry.
The biggest downside is that if you pass the end of the cable through the middle of the bundle you will create a knot every other loop. These can quickly be unknotted by gathering the knots together in line and passing an end back through. Also makes a decent magic trick.
A cable tie, hook-and-loop fastener, or a piece of rope or tie-line with a clove hitch in the middle is essential to secure cables while in transit or storage.
I love you.
I wish I knew a way to not tangle kite string
Also do this with garden hoses and braided style ropes
At least it’s not that weird braid thing that was all over youtube a while back.
That one is only useful for pull ropes. That method somehow magically gives it like 4x the strength while being half the length. I had an arborist buddy show it to me and he explained they use it for moving trees before they start cutting near downed lines.
How in the fuck is this over-under method really any different from the first way he was showing how people do it wrong? 🤨
Wrapping it around your arm stretches and pulls at the inner cabling. It isn’t a single massive copper pipe in there, its numerous thin guage copper wires wrapped around each other. Wrapping it around your arm puts kinks and folds in the cable that eventually snap those little wires over time.
Not the arm one, but the way before that. Over-over.
Over over puts multiple same direction twists in the cable. Over under puts a twist, then puts the opposite twist, so you don’t have to unroll the cable (or otherwise remove the twists).
It also prevents cables from coiling up. Cable that has coil form is the most fucking annoying thing to work with.
Same effect, but I learned this differently: always “over”, but apply a twist with thumb & index finger every time i loop the cable. Faster once you get it.
No, it’s not the same effect. Your way just forces the cable into a neat-looking coil, but it twists the conductors inside. That’s why when you uncoil it, you get a corkscrew that won’t lay flat, tangles more easily, and eventually wears the cable out. The method in the video avoids putting a twist in the cable at all - so when you uncoil it, it lies flat, doesn’t tangle, and lasts longer.
Maybe I didn’t explain it well enough, but what I learned does exactly the same as what the video shows, but with a different movement.
No, I get what you mean but you just said “always over.” That puts a twist in the cable. You can’t not twist it if you do “always over.”
Go take one of your long extension cords and attach the other end somewhere off the ground and then uncoil it so that it’s suspended in the air and you’re holding the other end. You’ll feel how it wants to turn in your hand because there’s a twist in it. That’s what the method in the video is preventing from happening.
I guess I’d have to show it to you, then you’d understand.
My long cables are very much untangled, flat and long-lasting.
Here’s your way with “always over” and “applying a twist with thumb & index finger every time i loop the cable” versus the proper way to do it.
You literally say you twist the cable as you’re coiling it. That’s why there’s a twist in it. You can even see in the video that once I start to coil it your way the loose end start to twist even though I started with a straight rope.
That looks convincing and I’d have to try myself with an actual cable to experience the difference. Until then I guess you win.
Why didn’t you use an actual cable?
FWIW, I don’t find that video convincing of anything, because it’s too difficult to see what the cable is doing, especially with respect to twist (or lack thereof) as it gets coiled.
Why didn’t you use an actual cable?
It doesn’t really matter. A rope, hose or a cable all behave the same. This piece of paracord illustrates the point and as you said, you can try it out yourself.
Also, I applaud you for being able to admit when you’ve been wrong. That’s rare nowdays.
Nah. Just grab the audio cable by the end and tightly wrap it around your elbow and hand. It’s super fast. Then tie the other end around the middle of the loop to hold it all together.
That damages the cable over time. Which is the point of this YSK
I am loving all the downvotes for this comment. did you ever try using duct tape to bind the cable before putting it in the back of a hot humid truck?
