The worst-case scenario is now a possible one: European troops fighting off an invasion largely alone.

It’s by no means clear the Europeans would succeed. Romanian and other European officials at the exercise in Cincu, about 260 kilometers (162 miles) north of Bucharest by road, voiced concerns about how long it would take for NATO allies to make it to the front.

French four-star General Philippe de Montenon said he’s confident Europe could prevail, even without the US on side. “The direction of history is a progressive disengagement of the United States from the European continent,” he said.

archive

  • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    4
    ·
    12 hours ago

    Warmongering in this case being defined as discussing the possibility of another nation state attacking them.

    • Twongo [she/her]@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      arrow-down
      6
      ·
      11 hours ago

      the situation in ukraine did not happen in a vacuum. there are reasons why russia decided to invade.

      there is no logical explaination why russia would want to attack NATO and trigger article 5.

      but hey as long as the fear exists we can watch line go up in rheinmetall, saab & dassault stocks so the capital of a stagnating empire can save itself.

      • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        8 hours ago

        there are reasons why russia decided to invade.

        Yeah the reason being that they believe that Ukraine had little in the way of defence and that they would be able to get away with it. Hence why military posturing is necessary, to convince the Russians they wouldn’t be able to get away with it.

        If some disaster took down Poland’s electrical and communication network Russia would be in there like a shot. Don’t try and claim otherwise they have form of taking advantage.

        • Socialism_Everyday@reddthat.com
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          5 hours ago

          Yeah the reason being that they believe that Ukraine had little in the way of defence

          This is bad analysis. You may disagree with the invasion and call it illegal while simultaneously understanding that NATO is a military alliance created specifically against the USSR and should have been dismantled (as was promised to former Soviet citizens during the dissolution of the country). NATO was never supposed to get to Poland, let alone Ukraine or Finland.

          Add to that the Victoria Nuland leaked audios discussing which president the US would put in place during the Euromaidan in 2014, the anti-Russian policies the Ukrainian government has taken for the past decade towards ethnic Russians in Eastern Ukraine, and you have plenty more arguments than “Russia just wanted to invade Ukraine and spoil their economic and diplomatic relations with all of Europe just because Pootin bad”.

          Again, you can still oppose and criticize the invasion, but try to do some realistic geopolitical analysis beyond the Lord of the Rings “Sauron is very evil and so are the Orcs”.

          • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            5 hours ago

            I don’t know what Nita was never supposed to get to Poland is supposed to mean. NATO was a defence pact to defend against any threat to its members, the idea was to prevent something like what happened in the first world war where everyone ended up fighting each other because of all of the complicated interrelations that had all been independently agreed.

            The reason they ended up being butting heads with the USSR was the USSR was constantly interfering with Western affairs. Just as Russia is doing today.

            NATO has a policy of never initiating an attack the only reason the military would ever enact would be if a threat was made against one of its member states.

            There is zero reason for Russia to consider NATO a threat. But they clearly do so NATO has to defend itself that’s not fear-mongering that’s just being pragmatic.

            My problem is your interpretation of NATO’s fairly logical response to a potential threat as seditious or part of some evil conspiracy on the part of the industrial military complex. Sure they’re benefiting from this but that doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re involvement isn’t partisan.

            • Socialism_Everyday@reddthat.com
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              2 hours ago

              NATO expanding into Poland as per Wikipedia article on controversy of NATO expansion eastwards.

              NATO was a defence pact

              …which has historically been used to bomb considered enemy nations such as Yugoslavia or Libya.

              the idea was to prevent something like what happened in the first world war where everyone ended up fighting each other

              Not true. Per Wikipedia’s article on NATO: “Throughout the Cold War, NATO’s primary purpose was to deter and counter the threat posed by the Soviet Union and its satellite states, which formed the rival Warsaw Pact in 1955”.

              NATO has a policy of never initiating an attack

              Ask Libyans or Yugoslavians what they have to say about that. And that’s just official NATO interventions, without counting Iraq or Afghanistan, in which some but not all NATO members participated.

              There is zero reason for Russia to consider NATO a threat.

              This is absolutely delusional, it’s patently obvious that you have never talked to a Russian person, and I say this as a Spaniard. NATO has consistently been a formation hostile to Russia, and has for the longest time been carrying out “simulacrum exercises” in the Baltic sea and regions near Russia.